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Chz
Post subject: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:00 pm
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This is what I've been working on for - well actually I made this ages ago but nonetheless, BB Napoli

[ img ]

I have a few questions about this one:
1) Do you need to credit people for underwater hulls?
2) Can I direct all of the dual-purpose guns with those two directors (I know the aft one is placed badly, I honestly dunno where to put it)
3) Is it better to keep the gun system as is now (two different large calibers) or replace the two aft turrets with a single 440mm
4) Is there anything else glaringly wrong with this design?


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:07 pm
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1- yes.
2- you have ten turrets for secondaries, USS Iowa had the same number and sported 4 directors for secondaries (1 on top of the brige, 2 at either side of the front funnel (thus in your drawing just one will be seen), and one in the aft part of the superstructure; to better place your aft one just switch position between it and the mainmast.
3- better keep one single caliber for the main armament, also you are mising the aft director for the big guns.
4- i'll leave this to more experienced artists, but i suggest you to extend the armour belt in order to protect the aft-facing guns.

hope this helps :)

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KHT
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:24 pm
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First thing that strikes me is that the drought and freeboard seems rather big. Decrease both by about a quarter.
Mixed calibers: Bad idea. My guess-imate is that the fore turrets are at least 20", and the aft turrets look like they are about 12". Dump the aft guns and add another turret for the main artillery. It's also good trying to make all turrets look somewhat alike(currently the assumed 20" turrets' appearance doesn't aestheticaly match any of the other turrets, for example). Stay with one big caliber and then use 6-4" secondaries, 5" is usually the best DP.
When it comes to directors, I usually try to go with a pattern of 2-3 directors for the main artillery, depending on how big the vessel is, but two is the most common. Then you'll want at least half as many directors for the secondary artillery as there are turrets of them. So ten turrets equalls 4-6 directors.
The aft mast and directors should be put the other way around, with the director being aft of the mast, facing aft. Also, is that one director on top of another on the conning tower? Or are there two of the larger directors flanking the sides of the higher one?
The funnels aren't bad themselves per se, but the placement is a bit funny. I suggest moving them apart, or trunking the together(the latter is preferable from a pure practical perspecive).
And finally, the crane for the boats look much to modern, and would fit better to a merchant ship.
I know this seems like a long elaborate list, and even after that there is room for improvement, but I think this ship looks like something that could become rather nice-looking, if treated properly. Best of luck! :D


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Chz
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:37 pm
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BB1987 wrote:
1- yes.
right, I'll add the credits in the new version
BB1987 wrote:
2- you have ten turrets for secondaries, USS Iowa had the same number and sported 4 directors for secondaries (1 on top of the brige, 2 at either side of the front funnel (thus in your drawing just one will be seen), and one in the aft part of the superstructure; to better place your aft one just switch position between it and the mainmast.
I was thinking of making it sort two secondary directors on the bridge, like such (if viewed from the front)
---A---
S-M-S
Secondaries, Main and the Air search (apparently) japanese-looking radar, could this setup work?
BB1987 wrote:
3- also you are mising the aft director for the big guns
oh crud
KHT wrote:
First thing that strikes me is that the drought and freeboard seems rather big. Decrease both by about a quarter.
will do
KHT wrote:
My guess-imate is that the fore turrets are at least 20", and the aft turrets look like they are about 12". Dump the aft guns and add another turret for the main artillery.
main guns are 440mm, or ~17in according to google, I'll remove the afts
KHT wrote:
When it comes to directors, I usually try to go with a pattern of 2-3 directors for the main artillery, depending on how big the vessel is, but two is the most common. Then you'll want at least half as many directors for the secondary artillery as there are turrets of them. So ten turrets equalls 4-6 directors.
The aft mast and directors should be put the other way around, with the director being aft of the mast, facing aft. Also, is that one director on top of another on the conning tower? Or are there two of the larger directors flanking the sides of the higher one?
point taken
KHT wrote:
The funnels aren't bad themselves per se, but the placement is a bit funny. I suggest moving them apart, or trunking the together(the latter is preferable from a pure practical perspecive)
I kind of like the looks of two funnels, though :), I guess they could be moved (aft, I'm guessing?)
KHT wrote:
And finally, the crane for the boats look much to modern, and would fit better to a merchant ship.
any suggestions for a crane, in that case?


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KHT
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:51 pm
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Hrm, sorry if I came of as rude.
Indeed, moving the aft funnel after would suffice well. Trunking them was merely the easier way(this is a nod to my own lazyness)
I suggest looking at other battleships on the 'bucket. Otherwise, warship mounted cranes are often more skeletall than merchant ones. Here is one of my cranes, which you are free to use, if you want:
[ img ]
Otherwise, I would suggest looting some other ship. :D


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 1:56 pm
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Chz wrote:
I was thinking of making it sort two secondary directors on the bridge, like such (if viewed from the front)
---A---
S-M-S
Secondaries, Main and the Air search (apparently) japanese-looking radar, could this setup work?
I think it could, but i also think is better to place the main guns director higher than the DP one, as the main caliber cannons have a longer range so the higher they are the better they serve; also i would make space in order to let the main director turn, because when trained broadside it will look a little similar to the japanese one you are using for the air search, and the other director placed just aft of it would obstruct it's turning movements.

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Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


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Chz
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 2:00 pm
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KHT wrote:
Hrm, sorry if I came of as rude.
not at all
KHT wrote:
Otherwise, warship mounted cranes are often more skeletall than merchant ones. Here is one of my cranes, which you are free to use, if you want:
[ img ]
I think I'll use that one, I'll draw something similar myself one day i hope
BB1987 wrote:
I think it could, but i also think is better to place the main guns director higher than the DP one, as the main caliber cannons have a longer range so the higher they are the better they serve; also i would make space in order to let the main director turn, because when trained broadside it will look a little similar to the japanese one you are using for the air search.
ah I see, I'll try messing about with the bridge and director layout then


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Clonecommander6454
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 11th, 2012, 2:09 pm
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Mix caliber= More Directors.
It looks rather promising for a new artist onboard like you and IMO the main belt does not need to be all the way up to the deck. Also, the ship seems to be lack of Mid caliber AA Weapons.


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Chz
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 12th, 2012, 1:33 pm
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[ img ]
V2 of Napoli, currently without underwater hull as I thought I'd have a stab at making it myself, which I'll do... eventually

*Reworked directors, mast setup
*Decreased draught, freeboard
*Replaced aft gun with a 440mm main
*Moved funnel, reworked boats and changed the crane

thats p. much it, however I couldn't find a decent place for the DP director, I was thinking of putting it in the place of the fore-most searchlight, would that work?
anything else horribly wrong now?


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KHT
Post subject: Re: Littorio-y BB designPosted: September 12th, 2012, 2:22 pm
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Much better!
Thoughts:
The aft 44cm guns should be mounted directly on the deck, no need to have it raised.
This is purely aesthetical, but I think you could make the B-deck run through the entire superstructure, instead of cutting it in two by the aft funnel.
Speaking of which, I think you could raise the funnel a bit.
That yellow firefighting gear on the wall of the C-deck should be two pixels above the deck's bottom.
A suggestion is that you change one of your smaller boats for a larger one, since this was a very usual feature on warships of the time(still is)

And yes, you could replace the searchlight for a director! I suggest that you place another searchlight by the fore funnel to compensate for this.
Another suggestion for placing directors is this:
Move the E-deck AA gun aft, perhaps even to the aft edge of said deck. Place a DP director where the gun was first mounted.
Remove the AA gun on top of the B deck, and place a director in it's place.
You could also place some AA guns on top of the B and X turrets.


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