Shipbucket

I read a Norwegian book about Norwegian warship, it was there that I read that the Navy had begun to build a new navy in 1935+, the construction planner was:

A new class of small destroyers: the Sleipner class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipner_class_destroyer
A new class of fast torpedo boats: Do not remember the name right now.
And a new class of coastal defense ship off two ships: Norway was invaded before Norway had started built them, as Horten naval shipyards were busy building the last destroyer in the Sleipner class.

So I started thinking, How can this new class of coastal defense ship look like. I started to play with spring shape, the size of her is limited to the largest dock Navy had at that time (that I know of), note that cannons I have gone for is my suggestions on what she can be equipped with, so here it is only to make suggestions. (Note: this is possibly the largest ship built (in length that is) by Horten Naval shipyard for the Navy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNoMS_Olav_Tryggvason).

Here she is as if she was built in Norway, mostly with British guns. I could also do a version with Bofors guns since they use to have a faster loading time. I know that it has been built a number of guns in Norway but ..:

Bergen/Christiania, Norway coastal defence ship laid down 1940



Displacement:
5 798 t light; 6 098 t standard; 6 301 t normal; 6 462 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(319,36 ft / 311,68 ft) x 55,77 ft x (18,04 / 18,44 ft)
(97,34 m / 95,00 m) x 17,00 m x (5,50 / 5,62 m)

Bergen/Christiania, Norway coastal defence ship laid down 1940

Displacement:
5 786 t light; 6 098 t standard; 6 301 t normal; 6 462 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(319,36 ft / 311,68 ft) x 55,77 ft x (18,04 / 18,44 ft)
(97,34 m / 95,00 m) x 17,00 m x (5,50 / 5,62 m)

Armament:
2 - 14,00" / 356 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1 383,70lbs / 627,64kg shells, 100 per gun (Have here gone for 14"/45 (35.6 cm) Mark VII in twin mounts)
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 6,00" / 152 mm 45,0 cal guns - 108,92lbs / 49,41kg shells, 200 per gun (Have here gone for 6"/50 (15.2 cm) BL Mark XXIII in twin mounts)
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
1 - 4,00" / 102 mm 45,0 cal gun - 32,27lbs / 14,64kg shells, 300 per gun (Have here gone for 4"/45 (10.2 cm) QF HA Marks XVI, XVII, XVIII and XXI in singel mounts)
Breech loading gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
1 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 5,70lbs / 2,59kg shells, 1 000 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides amidships
1 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 45,0 cal gun - 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 5 000 per gun
Breech loading gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
Weight of broadside 3 023 lbs / 1 371 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10,0" / 254 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Ends: 7,00" / 178 mm 109,07 ft / 33,24 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Upper: 7,00" / 178 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
10,0" / 254 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 17,96 ft / 5,47 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,50" / 191 mm 7,50" / 191 mm -
2nd: 6,00" / 152 mm 6,00" / 152 mm -
3rd: 2,00" / 51 mm 2,00" / 51 mm -

- Conning towers: Forward 8,00" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 516 shp / 4 861 Kw = 16,00 kts
Range 3 000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 364 tons

Complement:
353 - 459

Cost:
£2,209 million / $8,835 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 309 tons, 4,9 %
Armour: 3 504 tons, 55,6 %
- Belts: 1 595 tons, 25,3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1 346 tons, 21,4 %
- Armament: 505 tons, 8,0 %
- Conning Tower: 59 tons, 0,9 %
Machinery: 174 tons, 2,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 798 tons, 28,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 515 tons, 8,2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22 422 lbs / 10 171 Kg = 16,3 x 14,0 " / 356 mm shells or 8,1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,50
Metacentric height 4,1 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 11,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,70

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,703 / 0,706
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Average freeboard: 13,95 ft / 4,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 50,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104,5 %
Waterplane Area: 14 342 Square feet or 1 332 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 473 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,08
- Longitudinal: 2,46
- Overall: 1,18
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

early wip.

I try to combine what Bjørgvin class had, with what I know about Norwegian warships style, but some equipment is from UK, for example: British guns in the Norwegian cannon towers, etc.

As far as I can tell there is no room in hull for both emgines and boilers, and the aft secondary turret
see below

_________________
Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

Yes... sometimes Springsharp forgets that there has to be enough room for people aboard a ship.
It also forgets that the guns have to have room to swing; it just tells you that there is room to bolt them on.

I've always admired the coastal defense ships...they have a powerful, somewhat funny of feel with their pair of large guns not meant for that sized hull. But, overall, aside from the issue mentioned above, this seems like a neat little ship.

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Worklist:
Puerto Oeste - AU - WWI-WWII

There's a possibility that in such a tight design the shell- and handlingrooms are combined, thus eliminating one deck level, at least. As for the secondaries, these could well be separate, but on the same deck-level, with automatic, flash-tight doors. So, Novice, although what you post as being a probable cut-away, it might be very different from what you think! One thing in addition, small-tube boilers, though they were notoriously unreliable (cf Belleville) would not take up an exorbitant space compared to normal boilers. Of course this is dependent on when the ship is projected!

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

The reason why SpringSharp isn't complaining is because you've classified all your guns as breach loading guns in deck mounts which clearly isn't the case.
The 14" and 6" guns should be breech-loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, the 4" guns are Dual Purpose guns in either deck mounts or deck and hoist mounts, the 57mm guns should be AA guns in deck mounts and the 12,7mm guns should be machine guns.
The 6" and the 57mm should be in raised mounts, two decks in the AA guns case.
You also seems to have mixed up your guns somewhat.
According to your report you have two 14" barrels in two twin mounts on the centreline, two 6" barrels in four twin mounts on sides amidships, one 4" tube in two twin mounts on sides amidships and one 57mm gun in four single mounts on sides amidship and one 12,7mm in six single mounts.
I'm fairly certain that if you correct those errors you'll find that the design is impractical.

_________________
“Close” only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and tactical nuclear weapons.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

Worklist

Source Materiel is always welcome.

will do! thanks.

I made some changes in the "SS" Removed that 4 "gun and replaced it with 4 * 20mm twin machine guns. so then I had:

2 * twin 14.00 "/ 356 mm 45.0 cal guns - a 383.70 lbs / 627.63 kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret Wed barbette mounts, 1940 Model
2 * twin 6.00 "/ 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92 lbs / 49.41 kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in turret Wed barbette mounts, 1940 Model
2 * twin 2.24 "/ 57.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 5.70 lbs / 2.58 kg shells, 1 000 per gun Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 * Single 0.50 "/ 12.7 mm 45.0 cal gun - 0.06 lbs / 0.03 kg shells, 10 000 per gun, Machine gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 * twin 0.79 "/ 20.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 0.25 lbs / 0.11 kg shells, 5000 per gun, Machine gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model

Although the "SS" says it's possible, so I think it gets too cramped on the deck, I even had to raise the hull Displacement from:

Displacement:
5 786 t light; 6 098 t standard; 6 301 t normal; 6 462 t full load

to:

Displacement:
6 283 t light; 6 605 t standard; 6 820 t normal; 6 993 t full load

So I've decided to use some other guns, and a I came to think of the guns Bjorgvin class (Gorgon class) used had already pretty good range. and with a upgrade the old guns may have increaseed the range, while the loading time is faster, from the original 1 to 1.5 shots in minutes to 6-8 shots in minutes. This will be possible when the gun must have been redesigned to meet the requirements, and that the ships are being built in Norway, with Norwegian tech. and the Navy should have the drawing of those cannon Bjorgvin had and perhaps with the help of Bofors and their know how they could manage to...

This is the cannon from Bjorgvin class, any changes must I do but otherwise they are equal. Wondering if I should go for a double canon solution instead of Bjorgvin single cannons:

This is here with Bjørgvin class guns (240mm singel and 152mm singel), will come with a new drawing later.

Bergen/Christiania, Norway coastal defence ship laid down 1940

Displacement:
5 753 t light; 5 930 t standard; 6 220 t normal; 6 452 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(319,36 ft / 311,68 ft) x 55,77 ft x (18,04 / 18,62 ft)
(97,34 m / 95,00 m) x 17,00 m x (5,50 / 5,67 m)

Armament:
1 - 9,45" / 240 mm 51,0 cal gun - 448,55lbs / 203,46kg shells, 130 per gun
Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mounts, 1940 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 - 6,00" / 152 mm 49,0 cal gun - 113,76lbs / 51,60kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading gun in turret on barbette mounts, 1940 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
2 raised mounts
2 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,70lbs / 2,58kg shells, 1 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
1 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 45,0 cal gun - 0,25lbs / 0,11kg shells, 6 000 per gun
Machine gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
1 - 0,50" / 12,7 mm 45,0 cal gun - 0,06lbs / 0,03kg shells, 10 000 per gun
Machine gun in deck mounts, 1940 Model
4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 574 lbs / 260 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10,0" / 254 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Ends: 7,00" / 178 mm 109,07 ft / 33,24 m 8,96 ft / 2,73 m
Upper: 7,00" / 178 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
10,0" / 254 mm 202,59 ft / 61,75 m 17,96 ft / 5,47 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,00" / 178 mm 7,00" / 178 mm 6,00" / 152 mm
2nd: 6,00" / 152 mm 6,00" / 152 mm 6,00" / 152 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 8,00" / 203 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7 048 shp / 5 258 Kw = 16,40 kts
Range 3 000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 522 tons

Complement:
349 - 455

Cost:
£1,726 million / $6,904 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 151 tons, 2,4 %
Armour: 3 440 tons, 55,3 %
- Belts: 1 593 tons, 25,6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1 346 tons, 21,6 %
- Armament: 442 tons, 7,1 %
- Conning Tower: 58 tons, 0,9 %
Machinery: 188 tons, 3,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 974 tons, 31,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 467 tons, 7,5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29 652 lbs / 13 450 Kg = 70,3 x 9,4 " / 240 mm shells or 14,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
Metacentric height 2,4 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,694 / 0,698
Length to Beam Ratio: 5,59 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 16,40 ft / 5,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 13,12 ft / 4,00 m, 14,76 ft / 4,50 m
- Average freeboard: 13,95 ft / 4,25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 32,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104,8 %
Waterplane Area: 14 226 Square feet or 1 322 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 142 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 504 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,11
- Longitudinal: 2,41
- Overall: 1,20
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily