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and with that last sentence..... you just proved me right.

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Shipbucket Wiki admin

This conversation is finished, please look in previous page an edit about traditional fresh water vessels.

Admin could you delete or place somewhere I and ace funny discussion (Lost in translation!)

Most crafts in fresh waters of HLK are variations of a traditional primitive wooden boat which roots go thousand years back, developed through exprience by local fishermen and buiders from Neolithic age dug-out canoes. These crafts are known as " plava" (πλάβα) and " plaves" (πλάβες) in plural . Length varies from 5.5m to about 12m but with very narrow beam, generally a 6m plava has a beam of 0.9m to 1.2m and flat bottom. Larger are mostly tourist vessels for birdwatcing, but also passenger variants built in the past. Smaller are used by professional fishermans. Both Gendarme and Forest Guard have plaves except of modern RIB anb GRP crafts, together with airboats and small hovercrafts in swallow fresh waters. Only classic/traditional vessels are allowed in fresh waters of the Kingdom to keep traditional character, except for some tourist/passenger vessels. In latter role, everything can be seen, from large 10-12m plaves to passenger hydrofoils and semi-SES craft.

The passenger 12m plaves built for connecting lakeside villages, belong to the villagers themselfs, as all together fund the construction of each craft. First appeared back in 1870's and were sailing/oaring, later 1920's/1930's designs were diesel/oil powered. Usually a single one cylinder semi-diesel engine was installed, in an era were roads were rare, together with transportation equipment. Recent use outboard motors, as also many smaller ones since 1960's, when first outboard plaves appeared. Some older large plaves are still in use, now characterized "traditional items".

Examples

1,4,5: The most common plava "design"
2: Large tourist/birdwatching plava, these also served as passenger vessels across lakes connecting lakeside villages
3: River plava
6: The unigue plava of Lake Orestias, known as "karavi" (Καράβι)
7: Note the narrow beam of a plava!
8: Going full throttle!
9: A sunset with some plaves on the beach, the advantage of flat bottom.
10: Lagoon plava, in use in mid-West Hellas lagoons and shallow Ionian Sea waters. Several names exist, describing size and use (fishing, transport etc). Today only fishing variants exist.

In page 47 I upgrated the length of mountain narrow gauge railway to 218km, of which 176km rack railway. These 0.75m railways originally designed to connect mountain villages with larger cities, with the majority built in midwar period. The only 0.75m non-rack line is a conversion from 0.60m (original line built in 1916-1918 for WW1 needs) with total length 42km. Newer rack railways built to connect ski resorts with main line and one built for connected a location with a beautiful cave among other attractions. Most of non-electrified rack railways climb up to 1100m above sea and one up to 1400m,other are all electrified. Record height for railway gradually increased from 1650m (1988) to 1840m (2011) and 2050m (2013), with all these lead directly to ski resorts. In other cases, the rack railway lead to nearest village or city , where snow lifts or funiculars climb to the resort. There is also one ski resort accesible by a very narrow 0.60m line, where last steam engines of HR still working- supplemented by small diesel locomotives. The train does not goes directly there, but the funicular starts from the railway station.

Note that real Hellas has 23 ski resorts (I new about 21, but but I discovered two more small ski resorts (first unknown to me before and one was in construction at 2006-perhaps has opened for the public by now). In my scenario two more located in Autonomous Territories, so number goes to 25. Both numbers (23 or 25) includes one belongs to Hellenic Army and in my scenario this is opened for the puplic free without charge, when Army Alpinists are not trained.

Other recent public works in 2008-2014 period were a rebuilt program for several islandic ports due to the increasing visitors from cruise ships and a new airport in Crete.

Nice. Keep it up.

Two rail video from real Hellas, filmed from the cab of an LEW/AEG IC200 trainset. These entered service in 1989 (DMU-4) and 1994 (DMU-5), service speed 160 kph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXSp9WXd3oc : This part of the line is designed for 200-250 kph, so the British HST I have in my AU can work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZwiskXzDf0 : This is from old German documentary about trains of real Hellas, this part of the line is terrifying in some points, the train balanced on the egde of cliff! Channel has also other videos from same documentary, cut in 10min videos. In my AU, a double line designed for 100-120 kph pass through this mountainous area. Add with your imagination 25kV/50Hz overhead wire electrification (from 1925 to 1990 main line used 15kV/16.7Hz, which still is used in all single lines).

After traditional vessels and railways let's go for a ship.

This 38.0m hydrofoil



supposed to be somewhat a cross between these :



Missiles on A-36 are SSM-8A (upper) and SSM-8B/C (lower). First supposed to be active radar homing and second TV-guided (both were modifications from airborne weapons), while front gun is twin 30mm (Pyrkal 30/65,based on a lisenced Breda 30mm cannon from 1930's and the ancestor of today HDSO/Oerlikon Artemis). Second is the HCG variant.

-Italian M150 (the smaller hydrofoil in picture) seems to has four SSM Otomat.

I am thinking of using CODOG propulsion, twin small diesel for hullborne speed and twin gas turbines (or one larger) for high speeds.
Not sure about what directors are nessesary.

Finally, I want to built a passenger hydrofoil on this hull, powered by diesel, enough for service speed around 38kn.

Any comments?

I would like to see the underwater hull including hydrofoils.

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