Portugueses Update and Corrections

acelanceloet wrote:

mavgaz, let me tell you the following.
the harpoon was updated about half a year ago. this means that the ships that are fixed, drawn or redrawn in the last half year have got that harpoon launcher. everything from before that has the old launcher. we want to replace that part, so in the end all ships should have the new one. this is done by fixing or redrawing the older drawings over time.

but, now the problem. the drawings that have been drawn in the last half year (in my case over 50 already which have harpoon) will not be fixed in the near future, and I hope at least some of them will never be as I consider them perfect. I will not go over them to replace one part, like these harpoon launchers. so that will mean 3 versions of the same system on the bucket. 2 is an stretch already, 3 is way too many.

so, you are free to draw your own harpoon launcher. you are also free to use it on your ship drawings. but do not expect it to be generally used on all ships, hell your ship might not even be uploaded on the main site because of these parts.

this has nothing to do with conservatism or us being hard to newbe's or anything.

so, let me say this. your harpoon launchers need perfecting, and even if you get them perfect, I at least will only accept it as an standard part if you personally track down all updated harpoon ships and fit it in.

that said, when there will become an large number of people, including mods, to support this new part, I will gladly help improving these (and with an team, we might even be able to tackle all the part 'refits' of recent drawings)

Hi acelanceloet

I understand your point of view, however you are trying to arguing to not update the draw thinking about the problem of updating ships..So all new ships being created with the existent harpoon, and if that Harpoon launcher proven that is wrong and with bad perceptive, is growing up the problem of the number of ships which need to be fixed. So as soon as be corrected the solution is less hardworking.
You are preoccupied with the update problem when the that solution never was discuss

For me is 3 problems identified.
1 - (Old launchers wrong) - It's proved the oldest draw is wrong, so needs an update.
2 - (New launchers need be finish and approved) - I'm not saying my suggestion is perfect but with the help of the community we can reach near it..Moreover I'm receiving good opinions of the new launchers..
3 - (update the draws with it) - As a redraw guy, I probably can assume the task list of update all ships with the new launcher but I need to think I'm inside that project.

Now your contribute on the redraw the new harpoon launcher will be important, to understand what you defend they need to get then perfect.

Lets ear what you suggest.

About the POR ship, as "Whyme" requested me to don't redraw the entire ship, I only work in the parts needed correction. So probably the ship update will be his ship.

So my work here is finish until new task list on harpoons or lynx.

I just don't see why a new version is required. If you're going to nitpick over a few pixels' of difference, then you need to hold the ships to that standard -- that means measuring every single part, using real blueprints/yard drawings, etc.

And Shipbucket is just a drawing website, for fun. That level of detail isn't required.

I think some sort of clarification of the use and purpose of parts and sheets is in question as the subject seems to pop up every now and then in various threads.

The idea of part sheets were to gather up various little things like weapon launchers, radars, doors, reels and stuff into sheets from where everyone could use them without the need to draw them from the scratch every time. This naturally also unifies the shipbucket style as at least all the equipment would look the same. Back when there were still alot of uncharted ships and equipment, the sheets got upgraded as we kept them updated with joint effort. It worked and served its purpose in the early days.

Nowadays however the things have moved on. There's huge amount of drawers and the shipbucket style has evolved into various directions. Almost everything is already drawn at least once. That goes for most of the partsheets as well. However the partsheets have begun to move away from their orginal purpose and many drawers seems to fixate themselves on constantly improving and fixing the stuff in the sheets making it very hard to average drawer and newcomers to follow up. It's created two phenomenals which I don't like. First is the fact that some of the drawers who have drawn the equipment's in the sheets are mainly concerned that people will use THEIR parts, kinda ninjaed their own work into others drawings. Another is the "race" to update the systems which has led to some of the parts beign über-detailed to the fact that they are looking ridiculous and purposefulness as the shipbucket scale effectively dictates how much details you can put on stuff. USN radars are perfect example of this.

So what once was our tool and help has now become a arena of mindless self-indulgement and root of petty squarels. Many people here tends to forgot that the Administration will determine which drawing gets into the vaults in the end. And thus here is my ruling on the parts:

You can draw every single thing on your own as long as its bound to shipbucket standards. You don't need to use the parts from the partsheets.

Now I know I will get tons of PM now of members saying that all their work have been vain and so on and so on. Don't worry, 98% of us still wants to use parts from the partsheets, Me included. But we shouldn't chain those members who wants to do everything themselves to use parts from others especially if they wont fit their drawing style. Work on the partsheets is still highly valued among the Administration and their original purpose is still paramount factors of Shipbucket.

Gollevainen
Administration

Throwing my weight behind Gollevainen for this after realizing how true it is!

Hi Gollevainen..

Sorry I didn't understand what you mean in this sentence:

Gollevainen wrote:

First is the fact that some of the drawers who have drawn the equipment's in the sheets are mainly concerned that people will you THEIR parts, kinda nijaing their own work into others drawings. Another is the "race" to update the systems which has led to some of the parts beign über-detailed to the fact that they are looking ridiculous and purposefulness as the shipbucket scale effectively dictates how much details you can put on stuff. USN radars are perfect example of this.

I felt the real idea and spirit of shipbucket in your words as I always imagined that shipbucket is.
I'm new here, but my age and experience in other forums makes me take some posture were I try to keep the idea of the forum I'm using.

I not sure what you mean but understand the evolution of the shipbucket concept and is creating challenges to the forum moderation & administration. The world of forums is slight differentiated from the real world, In real world if you are good, you can reach the top of power (like president), However in a forum, if you want to use it, you will never reach the top and always following the rulers. So as a user you only can propose and hope to be listen. The problem is with time make the user desire start to be bigger and result in PM to Admin all the time..This in generally is a sine that some needs to be change..

I'm new here and may I don't know all the constrains to the suggestions I will say, and I can say same foolish suggestions, but can always be a possible contribute.
I think you always need to respond to these challengers / problems;
- Shipbucket needs a tool where the people can find & pick parts already drawn easly;
- Shipbucket needs a way to self update the parts autonomous and user can choose then freely.
- Shipbucket still needs to keep control in the draws witch not respect the shipbucket standards.

1- Instead you have official parts sheets, why you don't open the possibility of creating user Parts sheet Collections with all in it. Those collections owners will receive suggestions from other users they will pick the best suggestions and will create an natural selection environment were will promote the best drawn and the best for shipbucket.
If the collector owners start arguing to don't put in his collections naturally will appear new collections and the better draws will reach the top. This limit the discussions to upgrading or new collections.
This will release the Mod and Admin to only care with the respect of shipbucket standards.

2 - ShipBucket it Self can have the official partsheet colection pinned & topic closed, is approve by Admin but had the job easly done and is a Close topic, also can be time schedule update. They also need to be name like (version 21 / update 4 )The users will naturally search for shipbucket sheet but if don't agree in some part will search in the collections for a new one instead starting drawing, If not will create one and suggest to collections or create one.

3 - I'm not sure if is the right moment but with the increase of the parts draws and topic collections will be larger, will be easy for new users to separate the shipbucket parts in types sub-forums to limit the collections size, my suggestion are:
Weapons
Planes
Sensors
Other parts

4 - For the good of shipbucket all draws needs to be free to use. Users has to realized from the beginning they not own nothing but only contribute to the community. They have to stop felling disrespect for a other user pick theirs draw and change it / updated.

5 - About the updates can be a system of task list, If the "Reworkers" and "collectors" want to see your parts in the ships, so they have to create a Collection / part Update tasklist. This shows they are open to update ships and there they receive request from the creator of those ships to update, leaving this process free from trouble. This also help Admin to find easily the ships updated.

I think in this way, will end discussions giving some responsabilities to the users. All are free to use the parts in all collections, however they care if the ship final draw has parts according with the shipbucket standards. This system also separate admin from users giving a little responsibility and release task from the admin/mod, without disturbing the shipbucket concept and control from the Admin/mod. If the parts changes prove good I think the ships draw will also develop to that from.
Probably I made a pink suggestion were has much more gray solutions..But It can be a start..

I hope I've contribute to shipbucket..

Have fun
MavGaz

MavGaz

Gollevainen basically just said: 'The part sheets will stay as they are as most people like them the way they are. If people wish to draw their own parts, then that is just fine.'

There is not a need to go rearranging the entire parts system meaning admins and others having extra work to do - plenty is done as it stands now.

_________________
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Jabba's Worklist

jabba wrote:

Actually I understand what he meant in all context, and where he explain the evolution of shipbucket users that are creating challenges to the administration. In that context I send an Idea where I'm not expecting that idea is to be followed soon. As Gollevainen said 98% are in favor of the current process and he will know for sure when and what is the best for the forum..

I already know that is not mandatory to insert the part sheet parts, It's only is a reference. I receive was a lot of people complaining and accusing me those. Gollevainen only put an end..

Important: "I don't want to change the world only want to contribute for live better.."

Again, the parts control issue has been brought up a million times and no answer has come forth. I was very close to starting a project where I would create a functionality on the website using PHP/MySQL to make a system that would track individual parts and their revisions, etc but ran out of time. I still don't have enough time to do this, and honestly it doesn't interest me as much as it used to.

Shipbucket needs to just hire a professional web programmer to do this work and be done with it. The system is a good idea regardless of whatever people say; clearly no one wants to spend the time organizing parts sheets on the forum itself. It's too much of a hassle (especially as we get a new revision every two days!!!)

Quote:

4 - For the good of shipbucket all draws needs to be free to use. Users has to realized from the beginning they not own nothing but only contribute to the community. They have to stop felling disrespect for a other user pick theirs draw and change it / updated.

Good luck.

Colosseum wrote:

I totally understand you.. Time & cost are a problem..
The idea, save a lot the Admin/mod, actually you know that can be done in this forum format..
But some ideas as you mention (point 4) I didn't think how can be done,yet, I believe will be very difficult to reach..

Probably you didn't read the post before..

Have fun

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