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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 19th, 2016, 10:37 pm
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FANTASTIC work as always GD :!:

Very, VERY well done :D

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Cybermax
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 20th, 2016, 3:57 am
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Awesome Zerstorers!


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Rowdy36
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 20th, 2016, 6:34 am
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Excellent series of drawings, and the back story is always fascinating.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 20th, 2016, 8:31 am
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really nice work, indeed

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Skyder2598
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 21st, 2016, 12:46 pm
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Fantastic work :-)

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DG_Alpha
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 22nd, 2016, 9:47 pm
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Great work as always, nice series.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 26th, 2016, 5:09 pm
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Hello again!

12. Dutch prizes part 1: ZH-1 through ZH-4
Faced with the growing might of Japan and Koko in the Far East, Britain and the USA were determined not to let the resource-rich NEI fall into Japanese hands. On the other hand, both governments were under domestic pressure not to issue guarantees for other people's colonies if the owners showed little interest in defending these holdings themselves, as the Dutch obviously were immediately after the Great War. Thus Britain and the USA applied considerable diplomatic pressure on the Netherlands to provide her colonies with a credible defensive force, and the Dutch reluctantly started to build up what eventually became a modest, but well balanced fleet of two battleships (Vrijheid and Willem de Zwijger), two heavy cruisers (Amsterdam and Rotterdam, see above), six light cruisers (Java, Sumatra, Celebes, Irian, Tromp and De Ruyter) and twenty-four destroyers. In 1940, the active destroyer force consisted of eight old Luipaard-class 600-tonners of 1920 vintage, eight British pattern Admiraalen-class vessels and eight new destroyers bearing the names Jacob van Heemskerck, Isaac Sveers, Tjerk Hiddes, Gerard Callenburgh, Philips van Almonde, Van Speijck, Abraham Crijnssen and Wassenaar. Like the Admirals, these ships were based on a British design, larger than their predecessors to accomodate a fifth single Bofors 120mm gun between the quad torpedo sets, and two 40mm twins on both sides of the rear funnel. Like earlier Dutch destroyers, they carried a scouting airplane. They were commissioned between 1936 and 1939 and widely regarded as a particularly sound design: robust, reliable, roomy, very seaworthy, and capable of 37 knots. As commissioned, they looked like this:

[ img ]

Of the eight units of the class, four were in the far east in 1940, where they remained till 4/1942, when three of them were destroyed by Japanese/Kokoan forces. Only Tjerk Hiddes escaped and joined the Free Dutch forces in Europe in late 1942. Two (Callenburgh and Sveers) were under refit in Amsterdam and captured by the Germans, and two others (Heemskerck and Crijnssen) escaped to Great Britain, where they - together with Tjerk Hiddes and two newer units - formed the core of the Free Dutch Navy around the old cruiser Irian. Hiddes was lost during the war in combat with the Italian super-destroyers Lazio, Piemonte and Campania, the other two survived and were scrapped in the 1960s.

As the Heemskerck-class, which replaced the old Fret-class 500-tonners, was considered highly successful, the decision to replace the Luipaards with eight more units of a slightly improved type was made as early as 1937. Standard deplacement increased from 1.650 to 1.720 tons; they were one meter longer and somewhat beamier. A sixth Bofors gun was added, and the guns were mounted in three twin mounts rather than singly as in the Heemskerck-class to save length; this arrangement allowed for placing the 40mm twins on much more advantageous positions on the centerline and fit them with individual radar guidance, at that time a worldwide unique feature. A newly developed stabilized HA director was also added. Four units were laid down in 1938, four in 1939; the names assigned were Blos van Treslong, Zoutman, Pieter Florisz, Eland Dubois, Jan de Wit, Abraham van der Hulst, Van Heijden and De Liefde. None were complete when the Germans invaded in 1940, but all four 1938 ships were launched already. Blois van Treslong and Zoutman could be towed to Britain before the Netherlands collapsed and were completed there with their original armament and FC equipment, which was carried by the tugs. Both were handed to the Free Dutch Forces late in 1941 and deployed to the NEI, where they arrived in January 1942 and joined the Dutch Fleet there. Apart from the addition of four Oerlikons, they were little altered. Both perished in combat with Japanese and Kokoan forces a few weeks later; at that time, Zoutman looked like this:

[ img ]

The Germans captured several Dutch ships more or less intact; they specifically used commandoes from the Brandenburg division to infiltrate Dutch shipyards and naval bases. Six Treslong-class hulls fell into their hands, of which four were still on stocks; these were scrapped in 1941 and their engines used for German Fleet Torpedo boats. Two of this class were advanced far enough to be completed for German service, the former Pieter Florisz and Eland Dubois. They were completed to German specifications in mid-1942. The two captured Heemskerck-class ships Gerard Callenburgh and Isaac Sveers were also modified to German requirements and entered service in late 1941 and early 1942, respectively. Callenburgh became ZH 1, Sveers became ZH 2. Although they retained their main armament (the Germans had captured enough 120mm Bofors guns and ammo in Poland, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands to make these guns worthwile to operate for a long time), they received completely new bridges, German radar, German light AA (a great step backwards from the highly advanced 40mm Bofors twins), German TTs and sundry small alterations, looking like this upon recommissioning:

[ img ]

The two Treslong-class ships (Florisz became ZH 3, Dubois became ZH 4) were even further altered, receiving German-style sickle bows, further increasing their already good seaworthiness; in this discipline, they were the unchallenged champions of the whole German destroyer force. In 1943, they received additional 20mm guns and then looked like this:

[ img ]

All four had active careers. As they were the best sea boats among Germany's destroyers, they were deployed to Brest for service in the notoriously stormy Bay of Biscay, where they remained throughout the war. Although they were successful - ZH 1 and ZH 2 sank the Town-class DE HMS St.Marys, the Hunt-class DE HMS Mendip and three British transports during a Raid towards the western approaches in early 1943, and ZH 4 sank the Captain-class DE HMS Moorsom in July 1943 - none survived. ZH 3 was sunk by a bombing raid against Brest in December 1943, ZH 1 and 2 were destroyed by a British-Canadian-Free Polish force during the Invasion (the former being credited to HMS Ashanti, the latter to ORP Blyskawica) and ZH 4 was sunk by coastal command airplanes during her retreat to Bordeaux a few days later.

Greetings
GD


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 26th, 2016, 7:35 pm
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I am not entirely certain about the bridge configuration on your Dutch destroyers. It seems they lack an open bridge (or at the very least, have a director in the middle of it) with a modern looking rounded bridgehouse. This steering cabin looks quite a bit like you took inspiration from the post-war designs, which might not be entirely the way to go. I suspect the line of sight from this steering position is not ideal as well, but you have put the bridge half a deck higher than its surrounding structure, why not a few pixels more and clear the gun?

On the Zoutman, note that the 40mm fire control was either centrally guided (as on the cruisers, director + #3 mounting) or on-mount (as on the destroyers, #4 mounting). You currently kind of mixed the 2, with both the director and the #4 mounting.

Apart from these comments, these look like quite nice drawings and designs both. I really wonder what the post-war Dutch ships will look like following the experience from these!

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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 26th, 2016, 7:59 pm
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Very nice work!

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: February 26th, 2016, 8:35 pm
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Looks nice!


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