Shipbucket

Yes I do. The only reason I use that expression is caused by the beginning with badges it were used by everyone here in SB. Other expressions to discuss is crest and shields. But I don't want to nitpick in that as long the bucketeers are aware of what is meant

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Work in progress:
DD County Class PNS Babur (1982)(PAK)
FF Type 21 Class D182 PNS Babur (2000)(PAK)
All relevant Coat of Arms

Terminology is not what I was talking about. Let me rephrase:
Do you understand the difference between a [coat of arms/badge/crest] and a decorative [shield/ornament/figure] that represents a [coat of arms/badge/crest]?

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Worklist: Portuguese Navy and Barnegat class seaplane tenders

Then I have to say no! Because there are differences between coat of arms and a badge and a crest. But I can't figure out what you are thinking about referring to a decorative shield? All badges of today have a symbolic and decorative value. Please enlight me

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Work in progress:
DD County Class PNS Babur (1982)(PAK)
FF Type 21 Class D182 PNS Babur (2000)(PAK)
All relevant Coat of Arms

It's simple, really.

A coat of arms or a badge is supposed to correctly identify its owner in strict heraldic terms.
Decorations only function is, well, to decorate. Which means that many decorations are not heraldically correct and thus cannot be CoAs or badges.

Some of your drawings are heraldically incorrect. I guess the reason for it is that you base them on decorations meticulously replicating all their errors. While remarkable in terms of artistic representation they IMO do not fully correspond to ShipBucket spirit of making everything to the standard and as close to the real thing as possible.

For example the badge of Bismarck you've just drawn. The golden frame is not a part of the real CoA. In fact a frame is a separate heraldic element so by adding it you alter the CoA to the point of being incorrect. Gradient background, strictly speaking, is also heraldically incorrect but that is not a big deal; it just shows that you used a relief decoration for reference

It's like painting a picture of a marble sculpture of a person and claiming that it's a portrait of that person

I'm not criticizing or anything because the majority of people here seem to like your work; it's just a heraldry geek in me speaking, trying to point out some obvious mistakes

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Worklist: Portuguese Navy and Barnegat class seaplane tenders

In any event, very nice work...can't wait to see the next one!

-Matt

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

First I have to correct you. The golden frame is a part of the real badge, which is represented in the family Bismarck's CoA too. I've seen examples of badges without the frame, nevertheless it's a part of the badge. The gradient background is used to indicate metallic blue, but I'll give you that, if it is misunderstanded (which it obvious is) I will change it to one colour.
BTW, I always use official sources if I can find them. All my british badges are drawn after the original drawings which can be found by the Admiralty

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Work in progress:
DD County Class PNS Babur (1982)(PAK)
FF Type 21 Class D182 PNS Babur (2000)(PAK)
All relevant Coat of Arms

Oh really? Read the blazon. There's no such color as "metallic blue" in heraldry. And that's the reason why your RN badges are (mostly) good. The British are known for their reverence to heraldry and those Admiralty badges were drawn by real heraldic artists. Still you manage to make them worse by replicating heraldically insignificant details that look bad in pixel art.

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Worklist: Portuguese Navy and Barnegat class seaplane tenders

I've seen the Wiki-page, which don't say much. But I'm a bit annoyed over it, so now I will go to the library to get my sources confirmed. I don't want to use so much time discussing over doubtful sources. And yes, in heraldry there are only few colours and white and yellow doesn't exist (or represent silver and gold). I'm fully aware of that. I've drawn and created military badges since 1978. Therefore I also know, that the rules of heraldry often are broken. When I draw a badge here i SB I try to do it as close as possible to the original even if it is despite heraldry rules When I have been at the library, we can continue the discussion of DKM Bismarck, but untill then, I consider it as time out.

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Work in progress:
DD County Class PNS Babur (1982)(PAK)
FF Type 21 Class D182 PNS Babur (2000)(PAK)
All relevant Coat of Arms

No problem, take your time.
Just one moment though: when you say "as close as possible to the original" what do you mean by the "original"? Because in heraldry, you know, the only original thing is the blazon.

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Worklist: Portuguese Navy and Barnegat class seaplane tenders

I'm talking of the badges which are approved by the proper naval authorities. In that case it almost is a coloured drawing which I name original in these circumstances. But you're quite right when it depends on real uncompromising heraldry.

_________________
Work in progress:
DD County Class PNS Babur (1982)(PAK)
FF Type 21 Class D182 PNS Babur (2000)(PAK)
All relevant Coat of Arms