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The tanker is shown with the maximum weaponary it was designed to carry (as a auxiliary cruiser for exemple).

For the "silly" cruiser:
- the catapult is the same as the one from the Ōyodo which was designed to use the same (quite heavy) float plane.
- because this is a small cruiser for it's time period ; and as i said the structure and weapons are grouped in the middle to reduce the armored belt lenght.
- i was inspired by yamato drawings who showed very dense rigging.

_________________
"You can rape history, if you give her a child"
Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE

-The Ōyodo was a hell of a lot bigger than what you currently have or hadn't you noticed?
-That's it completely ignore what I said. Tell me how you manage to have a larger hull with a less capable AA/DP outfit than a smaller vessel? Ergo. Silly.
-Why would that translate to something less than a quarter of the size of Yamato?

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AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

@Waritem
Major technical issues with Your designs were already pointed out.
But the premise of this AU is generally very interesting and worth exploring.

I think that the catapult is not proportionnal with the size of the ship but to the aircraft it's suppose to manage.
I don't think the Oyodo would have had such a big one if a smaller one can do the job.

Could you give me a precise exemple of smaller vessel with more capable AA (to me vickers is not a DP), so i know exactly what we are talking about?

For the rigging let's compare with something smaller:

I count 29 cable.
(By the way did you noticed that its 76mm guns were on sponsons?
Those japanese! which silly ship designers they are..................)

On mine:

I count 28 cables. Wich , i admit, are more distinct, and by the way more visible

_________________
"You can rape history, if you give her a child"
Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE

sigh.
the guns are not on sponsons on that concept. the guns themselves are on the ship, but to allow people to walk around the turrets they build a small sponson. the sponson carries no load other then it's own weight.
http://imperialjapanesewarships.devhub. ... d/yag2.jpg

your ship won't need that kind of things. due to the weight of that catapult and those turrets you are going to need a beam of twice that amount, so you certainly be able to fit your guns inboard.

for the antenna cables. yes, that is what most of those cables are, long distance radia antenna cables. for the long wavelengths, you need certain lengths of antenna. on the yamato, they have fitted those lenghts in one way. on a cruiser, they are mostly positioned between the masts, because that is the only real place you get enough length. most crosswires to your funnels and turrets make no more sense with that addition. cable 1, 2, and with that 4-7 make little sense because they impair the working circle of the aircraft crane and catapult.

and that is why the rigging is wrong for this ship.

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Ace, you sniped me!



Yes, the Japanese were rather silly ship designers, capsizing battleships, aircraft carriers based off of unsuitable hulls to name but two.

- The rigging on the Agano is much less convoluted and messy then the way you have yours arranged. Maybe a taller mainmast would solve this, I'm not totally sure.
- The catapult on the Arethusa is capable of launching a Walrus which is either similarly weighted or more heavy than what you have. Look at the differences in catapults...
- Once again, the Arethusa, in this case Penelope ships EIGHT 4 inch guns, two quadruple pom-poms (1940), six single 20mm cannon (1940) and two quadruple Vickers HMGs. All on 5,220-5,250 tons standard compared to your arbitrary 6,000.
- On closer inspection the layout of your belt is suspect too. Why the shorter forward belt for the forward magazine but not for the rear magazine? Surely you could have a shorter belt either side saving weight which seems to be your prime directive anyway...
- Back to the catapults and aircraft arrangements, they're in their current super long form wasting so much deck space on such a small vessel it really is unbelievable.

So in conclusion I once again direct you to the Arethusa with regards to coming up with a feasible mini-cruiser.

_________________
AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

I really like the idea of your AU, What I would buy for the Iranian navy in the 30s,

- Destroyers, mostly small sloops (or Italian small gunboats ?).

- Subs, maybe from the Netherlands ?

- Tankers ( build some fast tankers for commercial service but designed as potential AMC) maybe German motor ships ?

(or just build what they ordered but got cancelled or not delivered ?)

JSB

What if Iran just spent the cash on a nationalized shipping company buying a fleet of fast tanker/liners (that could be converted to AMC if needed and a small pile of old weapons to arm them)?



JSB

I’m gonna try to answer to every one on those two first design.
First of all i’ve design those ships quite a long time ago (december 2013). I’m always delaying to post my designs cause i’m waiting to draw everything. For this particular case, i wanted to design all the ships in the list and post them all. This quite a silly attitude, which conduct me to post very few of my drawings ; you can’t imagine how many png are rusting in my hard disc (some with design much « weirder » than those two).
All this to say that some time it’s a bit hard for me to remember the reason i draw a part in a way and not an other.

Second, it seems that i need to precise that this topic is about an imaginary iranian strong navy, not about which was the best light cruiser design in late 30’s/early 40’s…………………….
In this AU Rezā Shāh Pahlavi (maybe a bit megalomaniac) want’s to build a strong navy and find himself with enought funds to do so.
The iranian choose to order two light cruiser and three oilers/auxiliary cruiser from japan.

For the oiler the only problem seems to be the weapons on sponsons.
Or maybe the cruiser catched most of the attention…………………:-)

On the cruiser then.
A bit of history of it’s design :
I started it as reduced version of the Oyodo. To be precise, in the au, the Oyodo is an enlarged version of the first design the japanese proposed for the iranian ship. The iranians finaly asked to have a more classic arangement with a turret in front and the other in the back.
here is a fast "3D sketch" of the initial design done from a Oyodo view.

SO many of my design decision were influenced by this ship.

Let’s check the catapult :
Yes the Kawanishi (4,100 kg full loaded) is significantly heavier than the walrus (3,265 kg full loaded). But i admit that the shape of those aircraft may be confusing.Maybe that’s why the japanese plane require a so huge catapult. If you check at the two drawings of the Oyodo in the bucket (1943 and 1944) you can see that the catapult was changed when the ship stopped using the initial floatplane.

The armor was also inspired by the Oyodo ; on the japanese ship it stops just in front of the forward turret and go’s far at the rear.
i guessed it was to protect airplane fuel tank or anything else required by the aircraft.

For the sponsons, i suspected since the begining that there was a misunderstanding…..
On the oiler it’s really full one, but on the cruiser only a small portion of the turrets is leanning on it.
here is a sketch of the final version done from a oyodo plan, with a japanese 127mm mount which is just a bit wider than mine.
But maybe the the way i draw it is confusing, and make them seems more massive than they should.

For the rigging, i think i don’t understand exactly the problem.
When i check different design of several size in the bucket (japanese CA- furutaka, DD samidare, french savona de brazza for exemple) it’s look to me that mine is just more curved. But i think i had noticed the problem with the crane, and j should fix it.

As a conclusion for in my AU i don't look for the best but for something realistic (almost......
So if a ship is not more silly than something that existed, it's ok.

_________________
"You can rape history, if you give her a child"
Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE

Than sound not bad.
I should try to remove the weapons from my oilers to check.

_________________
"You can rape history, if you give her a child"
Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE