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waritem
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 3:27 pm
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APDAF wrote:
Raxar the Danton are newer than the Satsuma.
I didn't think he said that the danton was older.
Anyway he remain close to 30 years old.................

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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 4:21 pm
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...though I have to admit that the Voltaire is looking pretty darn cute! Good kitbashing. Feel free to use any of mine, since you do evidently have the skills to do it in a credible way!

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waritem
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 4:35 pm
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bezobrazov wrote:
...though I have to admit that the Voltaire is looking pretty darn cute! Good kitbashing. Feel free to use any of mine, since you do evidently have the skills to do it in a credible way!
Thank you very much.

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Raxar
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 4:43 pm
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APDAF wrote:
Raxar the Danton are newer than the Satsuma.
Ahh, my mistake. I only noticed the refit date on the Danton. That's a good point. Though, the Satsuma would probably have a longer life expectancy, as the IJN liked to keep older vessels around for a while.
@Waritem: Fell free to use any of my RL projects aswell.

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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 6:54 pm
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waritem wrote:
The french central governement didn't felt the need to follow on as they had a numerical advantage with two battleship. But Teston d'Aigues-vives was concerned by the growing ambitions of japan in the area, and feared to fight on two fronts. Initialy formed as naval architect he set up a work group with local engineers to design a reconstruction program for the ships. He used his contact to acquire some informations and plans about the Dunkerque battlecruisers that were under construction. This way he was able to use a maximum of parts already designed and produced to lower the cost of the program and make it enough affordable to be accepted. Finally a subscription of the local french settlers were necessary to fund a part of the program and the Diderot was the first to sail back to french shipyards in 1935. The two ships were in active service by 1937. The new 84,000 shp engine gave a top speed of 24 knots. The six twin 240mm turrets were replaced by two dual purpose quadruple 155mm turrets. No torpedo tube were added but each ship carried four loire 130 seaplane with two catapults. To end the transformation a massive fore control tower was fitted in the dunkerque class style.
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Bonjour "Waritem" (Warburton ? :?: :mrgreen: )
Ton Danton modernisé en 1937 avec une passerelle "Dunkerque" est une bien mauvaise idée, trop extrême/irréaliste (TROP TROP d'argent mis sur une veille coque !).
Au MAX, J'aurais plutôt vu cela pour une "ultime" modernisation des Danton:
- Passerelle avant comme sur les "Courbet"/"Provence" modernisées vers 1926/1930 (mat tripod...).
- Réfection des machines et "fusion" des cheminées de 5 en 2 (3 maximum).
- Ton hydravion avec catapulte, mouhai... :? (sur un navire qui fait 18/21 noeuds :? ...22/24 SI toutes nouvelles machines...). Mais bon, pour un navire destiné à être utilisé en Indochine (loin de France), alors OK pour l"hydravion...
- Les 240mm sur les cotés, garde les ou supprime les et remplace les par 3 à 4 affuts simples de 130mm (les mêmes que les les Torpilleurs type "Bourrasque"/"Adroit").
- Supprime tous les 75mm sur les flancs, ils n'ont plus aucune utilité après 1922, car ils ne sont plus assez puissant pour contrer des torpilleurs/destroyers...
- En AA, rajoute simplement soit 4 pièces de 76mm, soit quelques mitrailleuses légères...

Toute modernisation après 1930/1931 (traité naval de Londres) est réellement futile et totalement irréaliste. L'idéal serait même de moderniser tes Danton vers 1922/1925 AU PLUS TARD ! (juste après guerre, après étude sur le Bearn (1919-1921), après le traité de Washington (1922) mais avant la modernisation des Courbet !!! (1926+)).

Sorry to speak French :mrgreen:
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APDAF
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 7:13 pm
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English please as per the rules.
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waritem
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 7:25 pm
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APDAF wrote:
English please as per the rules.
Merde j'espérais pouvoir repondre à Colombamike en français! :cry:
Tant pis...........................

Your refitted Danton project is more realistic and interesting for sure.
It should be done.............
(if you don't, maybe i will)

But i like mine.
Of course, i want my creation to be realistic, but sometime it's a secondary matter.

Still i totally agree on the point of the 75mm.
I think it was in my intention to remove them.
Don't know why i forgot.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 9:04 pm
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Btw, you should remove the UW-hull torpedo tubes from the Satsuma. There is no reason to keep them with a mid-30s mod, especially with that hefty battery you've installed in place of the 4,7" casemates.
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waritem
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 9:28 pm
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KHT wrote:
Btw, you should remove the UW-hull torpedo tubes from the Satsuma. There is no reason to keep them with a mid-30s mod, especially with that hefty battery you've installed in place of the 4,7" casemates.
It was inspired by the IJN takao, and i like them.............
But it's true that the japanese cruiser was launch on 1930.

So i have 2 solutions:
- change a bit my time line,
- remove the tubes.

The first would give me the oportunity to increase the time in shipyards.
The more i think about it, the more i realise it's unrealistic for such huge rebuild.....................

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waritem
Post subject: Re: Tiny naval arms race in south east asiaPosted: August 28th, 2012, 9:28 pm
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KHT wrote:
Btw, you should remove the UW-hull torpedo tubes from the Satsuma. There is no reason to keep them with a mid-30s mod, especially with that hefty battery you've installed in place of the 4,7" casemates.
It was inspired by the IJN takao, and i like them.............
But it's true that the japanese cruiser was launch on 1930.

So i have 2 solutions:
- change a bit my time line,
- remove the tubes.

The first would give me the oportunity to increase the time in shipyards.
The more i think about it, the more i realise it's unrealistic for such huge rebuild.....................

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