Shipbucket

Hello People!

After browsing various AU's, I decided I want my own island too, and made a drawing of one.



Thiaria (derived from Gaelic Tir Thiar, meaning 'The Land Beyond') is located several hundred miles east of the Rio de la Plata, is a nation predominantly populated by Irish and Scottish settlers (35% respectively 25%, with 10% Portuguese, 15% Africans, 5% French and 10% various eastern Europeans, mostly Hungarians and Poles). Population is 19 Million in 2013, with 15 Million in 1940, 12 Million in 1914 and 10 Million in 1890. Official Language is Irish Gaelic, and the most consistent aspect of foreign policy until 1980 is confrontation with Great Britain. Two thirds of Thiaria is desert or steppe, but the south-east is very fertile and boasts major Iron, Copper, Coal and Oil supplies. Thiaria is the greatest naval power in the southern hemisphere since approximately 1890, and in the next couple of decades I intend to draw a full collection of every warship above gunboat-size in service with that fictional navy from 1890 to 2020.

Since I found it quite boring to create a nation that adds even more to the already overwhelming allied naval supremacy, I decided to create a history that leaves the country on the wrong side of both world wars, losing in both the end, but winning a few battles along the way.

History in a Nutshell (details to follow if I have time):
The islands were discovered by the Portuguese in 1568 and subsequently settled. They were then annexed by Spain in 1641 and ceded to France in 1659. From 1689, they became a major destination for settlers from Scotland and Ireland; their number increased even more when the Islands became British after the war of Spanish Succession in 1713 and were used as a penal colony for Jacobites and other rebels. In 1783, the isles became French again and resisted two British Invasion attempts after 1792. They were no longer defensible after 1805 and gained de-facto independence. When they were reconquered by Britain in 1808, the Irish/scottish majority of the settlers revolted, and the British eventually quit their attempt to hold the islands in 1813. France never tried to take them back and finally granted full independence in 1831. After a peaceful 19th century, Thiaria lost a war against Brazil in 1894, got involved into the Boer war in 1900, won a war against Brazil in 1907 and entered the first world war alongside the central powers in 1916 after the Irish spring uprising. Although performing well against the few naval assets the Allies could spare for the South Atlantic, Thiaria finally faced overwhelming odds after the US entered the war and had to surrender in 1918 as the last country of the central powers, having to cede most of their fleet to the Allies. During the 1920s and 1930s, Thiaria rebuilt her fleet, allied herself with Italy and nurtured her desire for revenge, and when the Royal Navy attacked a German Pocket Battleship in Thiarian waters in December 1939, they declared war on Great Britain. After a major naval offensive which led to the conquest of most British-held Islands in the South Atlantic, dragging Brazil into the war three years prematurely, and a land campaign on the south american continent, Thiarian forces were rolled back by superior allied forces from 1942 after the US entered the war. In September 1944, they surrendered in order to avoid invasion. Thiaria was not important enough to be occupied after it was disarmed, but became an international pariah and degenerated into a civil-war torn banana republic in the 1950s and 1960s. A short flirt with the Soviets in the 1960s was cut short by a military coup in 1972; the oil crisis in 1973 then created an economic boom (like all other AU countries, Thiaria of course has lot of crude oil... ) and enabled the country to return to democracy without much turmoil. The decision not to backstab Great Britain in the Falklands War of 1982 earned Thiaria full UNO membership, and by 2000, the country enjoyed the same life standard as Western Europe and kept close ties with the EU. With Brazil's rising power after 2000, new tensions arose, and Thiaria embarked on a long-term acquisition programme to build the most advanced navy in the southern hemisphere. The Army remains based upon a militia system like Sweden and Switzerland; the Navy collects an average of 75% of the defense budget.

Before I proceed, however, let me make clear that I am aware that any alternate history that involves real-world countries will necessarily involve aspects that might be considered insults to national pride by some people. If anyone - even a single individual - informs me (no reasons need be given) that he or she disapproves of the creation of a fictional nations that wins naval battles against Great Britain and Brazil while fighting alongside the likes of Kaiser Wilhelm II and Adolf Hitler, I will delete this thread, post no Thiarian ships and never talk about it again.

If anyone discovers any gross logical inconsistencies in the story, please inform me.

Greetings
GD

Interesting AU GD, I look forward to seeing more of it.

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"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein

I like it, but what's the naval strength during the WW2 period? Waring against great powers like GB and the US, well... Demand quite some fleet strength.
I would like to see a bit more reasoning on the time before, between and during the two WW. For example, you make it sound as if people nation-wide planned the downfall of the British empire after WW1, but even in Germany most people didn't want a second war. It was only when the Great depression struck that Hitler could rise to power.

Btw, people who take offence at such things that you listed should stay off the internet(not to mention national pride should just be defenestrated these days). I for one thinks it's interesting with someone who builds an AU nation that's actually on the side of the Germans during both wars, since most AUs(my own included)tends to aid the allies in some way(since it allows your AU to fight GLORIOUSLY against the nazis).

That's somewhat interesting backstory, but I'm somewhat concerned with demographics in relation to that "greatest naval power in the southern hemisphere" part. With population of 19 million today, You've got it roughly on par with Australia or Chile and barely half of Argentina. Of course it's not a non-starter (after all, 120 years ago Argentina had just 4 million people, You'll have 10), but it doesn't look optimally to me.
Leaving that aside, I'm looking forward to seeing ships in that thread!

This is a great map. I like the consistency of the names and quality of the drawing.
I can't wait to see what ships and other history you come up with, especially if you side with the Germans.

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

Hello again!

OK, let's get started. I wanted to do the ships chronologically since 1890, but I was more in a mood to start with the first world war.

The mainstay of Thiaria's fleet in the 1916-1918 conflict were the four near-identical battleships of the Conaire-class. When the Brazilians commissioned their Minas-Gerais-class in 1910, the Thiarian fleet, although still superior in numbers, was rendered totally obsolete. Nationalist elements in the Dail and lobbyists of the steel and yard industry took the opportunity of this shocking event to vote a sum of 255 Million Chros (Thiarian currency, meaning 'Cross' because the Southern Cross was on the first Thiarian coins minted in 1815), roughly equaling almost 11 million Pound Sterling as of 1910, to simultaneously order four ships incorporating the most modern design features of their time. Specifications called for at least 305mm guns in triple turrets, armour protection and internal subdivision equal to the contemporary German Kaiser-class, and a top speed of 24 knots. Two ships were to be built immediately, two more in 1912; one each of both groups was awarded to a naval yard, the other to a private yard. Completing the design took till early 1911; anything that was or at least sounded modern was incorporated, including a sickle-shaped bow and a tripod mainmast. The first two were laid down in August 1911, launched in December 1912 respectively February 1913 and commissioned in November 1915 respectively January 1916. The next group was laid down in March 1913; they could be built considerably faster due to the experience gathered with the other two and were launched in April respectively June 1914 and both commissioned in April 1916. The second group was originally to receive a main armament of 8 370mm guns in four twin turrets, but that weapon was not yet available in 1913; the 305mm triples were however large enough that the 370mm twins could be fitted on their barbettes, and the Thiarians always planned to retrofit the entire class one day, a plan that never materialized. These ships turned out remarkably well; all four reached their design speed of 24 knots and proved very stable and seaworthy. Although LT Macanta commissioned first, the class was commonly referred to as the Conaire-class. The individual units were (LT=Long na Thiariann, meaning simply Thiarian ship):

LT Macanta


Named for the second president of the Thiarian republic, who held office from 1830 through 1852 (still the record) and under whose presidency full independence was achieved. Like all her sisters, Macanta took part in the battle of Tristan da Cunha on June 25th, 1916, against the British 5th Battle squadron (HMS Warspite, Barham, Valiant and Malaya). She scored 8 hits on Valiant and three on Warspite, being hit herself by 7 15inch shells which put out the forward turret, annihilated the CT and killed the CO; her seaworthiness was not impaired, and she fired her aft turrets during the entire retreat of the Thiarian squadron till the British finally cancelled the chase. She was quickly repaired and made two more sorties during the (southern) winter, but failed to locate the British convoys she was set upon. During the summer of 1916/7, the British were reinforced by HMS Queen Elizabeth and several pre-dreadnoughts and tried to blockade Thiaria, but had never enough forces to fully seal it off due to more pressing requirements of the home fleet. Both dreadnought squadrons repeatedly sortied, but met only once in February 1917, quickly disengaging after a severe summer storm made it seem prudent to RTB. When Brazil entered the war in October 1917, Macanta and Lormaic bombarded Brazilian coastal cities and thus provoked an all-out sortie of the Brazilian Fleet on for a return visit on December 11th, 1917 which culminated in the Battle of Caitriona on December 16th. Macanta scored 15 hits on Rio de Janeiro, contributing the lion's share to sinking her. After that, the British re-organized their South Atlantic squadron, replacing the Queen Elizabeths with no less than 12 dreadnoughts and the same number of pre-dreadnoughts (the US sent 8 battleships to the Grand fleet to replace them). This was finally enough to blockade Thiaria, and any further Thiarian attempts to single out inferior groups of British ships were thwarted by superior British intelligence. On March 4th, 1918, Macanta, her surviving sisters and LN Crionna (a new battleship originally ordered by Turkey) met eight British battleships (HMS Iron Duke, Emperor of India, Marlborough, Benbow, Erin, Colossus, Hercules and Neptune) in the Battle of Craigmiadh, a little Island 400 nm south-east of Tir Sliceann. The British split their force, using the older ships to draw the Thiarians out and tried to maneuver the newer ones between the Thiarians and their homeland, but the Thiarians broke through and scored their last triumph in the war by reducing HMS Emperor of India and HMS Colossus to a sinking condition, then using their superior speed to escape. Macanta hit HMS Iron Duke six times to little effect. During the pursuit, two Thiarian battleships were shot up almost beyond recognition, but Macanta escaped with merely four hits, and all made port. When the central powers collapsed in November 1918, the Thiarians were neither defeated nor starved, but fully aware that the British could now throw their entire fleet at them, force their way into the Bauaine and attack the main base at Noyalo. On November 24th, 1918, Thiaria surrendered. Macanta was among the ships selected to be ceded to the Allies as reparations. She was assigned to the UK and scrapped in 1922.

LT Conaire


Named for a hero of the independence wars, a former US Navy officer who emigrated to Thiaria in 1807 in order to keep fighting the English. He scored Thiaria's first naval victory against them in 1808, later leading insurgents till 1815 and serving as commander-in-chief of the Thiarian fleet till his retirement in 1836. Conaire was the official class ship and fleet flagship of the Thiarian navy throughout the first world war. As all Thiarian dreadnoughts operated together practically all the time (except for a few shore bombardments), her operations mirror those of Macanta. She had the best gunnery of the Thiarian fleet in the Battle of Tristan da Cunha and hit HMS Warspite thirteen times, taking six hits herself. During the Summer 1916/7, she was first torpedoed by HMS G4, then hit a Mine, but survived and was repaired. During the Battle of Caitriona, she first scored twelve hits on Sao Paulo, sinking her, then turned upon Rio de Janeiro and scored another six hits till she sunk as well. During the Battle of Craigmiadh, Conaire scored half the Thiarian hits on Emperor of India (9), but was herself hit no less than fourteen times and barely made it home. When Thiaria quit the fight in late November 1918, Conaire lay unrepaired at Noyalo and was not seaworthy enough to be surrendered. When peace was finally made in 1919, the Thiarians were allowed to keep her. She was later extensively modernized to fight another war, but that's another story I've yet to make up.

LT Dunshayne


Named after the initiator of Thiarian insurgence against the British in the 1800s, who was hanged in 1808 and is considered Thiaria's national martyr. Her own career was the shortest of all Thiarian battleships; her green crew failed to score a single hit in the Battle of Tristan da Cunha, and she was reduced to a burning wreck by no less than 19 15inch shells from HMS Valiant and Warspite.

LT Lormaic


Named after the C-in-C of the Thiarian fleet in the victorious war against Brazil of 1907. Like Dunshayne, she differed from her sisters Conaire and Macanta by an improved bow shape. Although her crew was as green as Dunshayne's, she scored five hits on HMS Malaya in the Battle of Tristan da Cunha and absorbed nine hits herself; she almost sank on the return leg and had to be beached on the northern coast of the Eilean Deilf. After a successful salvage, she was out of commission for almost a year. In the Battle of Catriona, she took six hits from Minas Gerais, the only Brazilian ship to acquit itself finely in that disastrous battle, and was incapacitated by a hit on the CT which put her out of action long enough for Minas Gerais to escape after suffering only four hits. During the Battle of Craigmiadh, she was hit seven times and herself scored ten hits on HMS Emperor of India, which together with Conaire's nine hits, was enough to sink her. She was fully repaired by the time Thiaria surrendered and became a French prize; although it was briefly considered to commission her, she was eventually sunk as a target.


For those who care, that's what Springsharp thinks about these ships:

Conaire-class, Thiarian battleship, laid down 1910

Displacement:
24.114 t light; 25.547 t standard; 27.016 t normal; 28.190 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(622,78 ft / 616,80 ft) x 91,86 ft x (28,87 / 29,88 ft)
(189,82 m / 188,00 m) x 28,00 m x (8,80 / 9,11 m)

Armament:
12 - 12,01" / 305 mm 50,0 cal guns - 916,47lbs / 415,70kg shells, 125 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1910 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
12 - 5,51" / 140 mm 50,0 cal guns - 88,63lbs / 40,20kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1910 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
8 - 2,56" / 65,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 8,45lbs / 3,83kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1910 Model
8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12.129 lbs / 5.502 kg
Main Torpedoes
2 - 17,7" / 450 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,047 t each, 2,093 t total
submerged side tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,6" / 345 mm 354,99 ft / 108,20 m 11,52 ft / 3,51 m
Ends: 5,71" / 145 mm 248,65 ft / 75,79 m 11,52 ft / 3,51 m
13,16 ft / 4,01 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 5,71" / 145 mm 354,99 ft / 108,20 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 89% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,57" / 40 mm 354,99 ft / 108,20 m 26,94 ft / 8,21 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 72,18 ft / 22,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13,5" / 343 mm 9,02" / 229 mm 12,5" / 317 mm
2nd: 5,51" / 140 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4,92" / 125 mm
Forecastle: 1,57" / 40 mm Quarter deck: 3,54" / 90 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13,50" / 343 mm, Aft 12,48" / 317 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 3 shafts, 53.197 shp / 39.685 Kw = 24,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.643 tons (60% coal)

Complement:
1.053 - 1.369

Cost:
£2,370 million / $9,478 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2.367 tons, 8,8%
- Guns: 2.363 tons, 8,7%
- Weapons: 4 tons, 0,0%
Armour: 10.716 tons, 39,7%
- Belts: 3.798 tons, 14,1%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 557 tons, 2,1%
- Armament: 2.457 tons, 9,1%
- Armour Deck: 3.400 tons, 12,6%
- Conning Towers: 504 tons, 1,9%
Machinery: 2.325 tons, 8,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.706 tons, 32,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.902 tons, 10,7%
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39.002 lbs / 17.691 Kg = 45,1 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 7,6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 5,4 ft / 1,7 m
Roll period: 16,5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,38

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,578 / 0,583
Length to Beam Ratio: 6,71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24,84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 24,61 ft / 7,50 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Forward deck: 45,00%, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Aft deck: 20,00%, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m, 15,75 ft / 4,80 m
- Average freeboard: 20,57 ft / 6,27 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152,3%
Waterplane Area: 40.596 Square feet or 3.771 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 865 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,61
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

P.S. I'm beginning to like this AU thing .

Greetings
GD

Nice ships GD! Looking forward to more!

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"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein

Wow they look awesome.

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Nobody expects the Imperial Inquisition!

really nice ships, i'm with Raxar, i'll wait for more.

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Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation

Nice work!

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