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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Crazy huge CGN du jourPosted: December 31st, 2010, 8:10 pm
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ALVAMA wrote:
The Goalkeeper can be reloaded aboard under deck and that is much saver then walking on deck.
Requiring below decks volume is an advantage now? Because God knows you're on the path to victory if you need to reload your CIWS while under fire. If you're using your CIWS at all you're having a bad day.
acelenceloet wrote:
RAM is newer, so I wasn't taking it into mind for this..... but for an ship of that time, the goalkeeper offers more range, and because it fires in shorter bursts it can attack more targets at the same time. for an ship like this that means you have to fit fewer mounds, and if I am correct (I'm not sure about that) the phalanx can't provide 360 degrees cover, while the goalkeeper can (of course this depends on other guidance systems on board, I am now only talking about the inbuild systems)
( and the fact that it is Dutch makes me favor it too ;) )
I'll be honest, I don't know much about goalkeeper, but I do know about Phalanx. Take a look at this cutaway from NavWeaps

[ img ].

That's Phalanx - all of it. Hook that up to electricity, chilled water, and a cueing system and you're good to go. You will also note that in the big white part you have two different radars, a Ku band search set (on the top, under the dome, where it can spin around and see all around it), and a Ku band tracking/gunlaying set (in the cylinder).

Here is another image showing the self-contained nature of Phalanx (again from Navweaps):

[ img ]

Because Phalanx is so compact and light, you can place it on the beams of a ship. or in other positions close to the superstructure where THE SHIP LIMITS THE FIELD OF VIEW, THUS MAKING 360° TRACKING POINTLESS. But wait! The radar atop Phalanx has a full 360° field of view (when not stopped by programmable software blocks to prevent the irradiation of the hull by your own radar), and the mount is fully trainable (±150° around and a minimum of -10° to +80° on the first blocks, so functionally the same as 360°).

Phalanx also has a good history of intercepts when turned ON (when OFF or in STANDBY, it doesn't fire).

Phalanx has also been integrated into a land-based roll as C-RAM (Counter-Rocket, Artillery, and Missile). While in service the 30 or so systems that were deployed with the US Central Command in 2008 had defeated over one hundred attacks.

This is not to say that Goalkeeper is a bad system, or that it isn't better than Phalanx in certain roles, only to say that Phalanx does have certain distinct advantages (deck penetration, ease of shipboard integration, proven service record, weight, and oh yeah COST*).

*It doesn't matter how good a CIWS is if you can't afford to have your ships cover all of their arcs which usually means more than one mount per ship.

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Last edited by TimothyC on December 31st, 2010, 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: December 31st, 2010, 8:14 pm
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so the intel about the phalanx I saw somewhere was false.... ok then. (but I'm still an GK fanboy ;) )
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper ... odern_CIWS of course..... never listen to wikipedia -.-

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Bombhead
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: December 31st, 2010, 9:14 pm
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Nice Pic Timothy,looks like R2D2 had too many on new years eve. :lol:


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Novice
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 1st, 2011, 9:59 am
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One distinct advantage of Phalanx is low weight, and that means that a small crft can carry it [ img ]
I dont see a vessel of that size carrying Goalkeeper, as good a weapon system as it is.

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 3:55 am
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^ is Saar getting a RAM upgrade or are they keeping the Phalanx?


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Remko
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 4:20 pm
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Besides being "on the Goalkeeper team", I've lways liked the Soviet CIWS mounts. Nice and small (but probably lots of stuff beneath the deck). I don't know anything about capability though.

What about the new Oerlikon "Millenium" gun with AHEAD (Advanced Hit Efficiency And Destruction) ammunition?

Link to NavWeaps: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_3 ... ennium.htm
Link to Lockheed-Martin: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/ ... index.html

From the latter link:

The technological advantages of the Millennium Gun and Ahead ammunition make the system ideal for the following roles:

- Air defence against anti-ship missiles at distances three to four times greater than conventional close-in weapon systems (CIWS);
- Anti-surface warfare, including the 100% fulfilment of US Navy requirements to defeat Fast Incoming Attack Craft (FIAC) and all other asymmetric threats;
- Naval gun fire support: the effectiveness of Oerlikon Ahead ammunition against infantry and lightly armoured targets enables highly reliable suppression of enemy fire during operations to extract friendly personnel.


Looks like a winner to me. Besides, 35 mm projectiles instead of 30 mm, you can't beat that! :twisted:
Best of all, no deck penetration. 8-)


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 5:36 pm
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The Millennium gun is a nice mount, but it does lack the on-mount targeting you get from both Phalanx and Goalkeeper.

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 7:05 pm
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I was always under the impression that the Millennium Gun was primarily an anti-surface weapon with secondary anti-ASM capability rather than a direct replacement for Phalanx (once again RAM achieves that function).


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 8:21 pm
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klagldsf wrote:
I was always under the impression that the Millennium Gun was primarily an anti-surface weapon with secondary anti-ASM capability rather than a direct replacement for Phalanx (once again RAM achieves that function).
Nope, definitely the other way around. Hence the ridiculous rate of fire and the whole AHEAD flappy-trappy.
It does have the disadvantage of needing external guidance, but then again, so does RAM.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Western CIWS discussions (split from crazy huge CGN)Posted: January 2nd, 2011, 8:29 pm
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Albeit not quite to the same degree, I think. RAM can be cued from a variety of SSDS sensors (IR, active radar, ESM) because it doesn't need exact pointing. Millennium Gun (or any other unguided weapon) is going to need such.


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