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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 12th, 2013, 5:56 pm
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I thought these circles are load marks,I have seen them in merchant ships in Pireus port well above the waterline.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 12th, 2013, 6:04 pm
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those at midship might have been load marks, but those do not look like the ones you have drawn :P

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 12th, 2013, 6:09 pm
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The STIR 180 is also in use in other ships of RHN and built by Signaal-Smart Hellas.Turkey has a design for a fast LCT,it has somewhat a semi-catamaran hull with tunnels both at bow and stern.It goes 18-19kn,perhaps this design could work in larger scale.No mean of cooperation,but two similar,parallel designs-since hydrodynamics is the same always.
What about a SWATH,like this:[ img ]
SWATH is an old design,so it can fit in my timeline.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 12th, 2013, 6:28 pm
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waves are NOT the same always. and waves are part of hydrodynamics.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 13th, 2013, 9:50 am
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Any design will act in Aegean and East Meditteranean.


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 13th, 2013, 10:18 am
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It still won't let you scale a 35m landing craft into a 100m+ landing ship.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 15th, 2013, 3:42 am
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Another idea could be to built 4 LSD Iason Mk1 (144.5m X 21.6m) in late 1970s-early 1980s following by 8(+2) LST Iason Mk2 (also known as Samos Class).The LSD Iason I designed to replace the old Casa Grande LSD of WW2 (3 of these were transferred to RHN in 1953-1954 in my scenario),has a dock for 2 ACV Aerotech A-22 (somewhat a never built Pr.1205 with ducted fan props,powered by Turbomeca/Aerodyne engines),or one ACV A-35 (landing ACV 36m long),or one 40m LCU.Also I have some photos from naval exersices in mid 1990s which shows a king of floating platform for transporting tanks (up to 3 M48/M60 or Leopards) to the beach.This platform according to those magazines are British built.My Hellenic Army does not have sortage of amphibious vehicles,because when Iason Mk1 built there were in service LVTP-5,M59,M113,LVTP-7 and later after 1990 BMP-1,MT-LB,Tiger and VBL.


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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 15th, 2013, 9:22 am
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Why not look at the larger LCAT designs such as their MPV? The thing is a twin hull and 90m long
Quote:
  • Length: 90m
  • Width: 24.5m
  • Deadweight max (loaded): 1,050t
  • Deadweight max (patrol): 650t
  • Crew: 26
  • Engine power: 10 MW
  • Cruise speed (empty): 25kn
  • Cruise speed fully (loaded): 20kn
  • Speed in landing mode: 12kn
  • Autonomy: 10,000Nm
  • Navigation: Sea state 6
  • Safe: Sea state 7

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 15th, 2013, 3:14 pm
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These are new designs,the scenario I said above belongs to late 1970s to late 1980s.Perhaps the LCAT 90m will fit in future,so I am going to take a look.


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: February 18th, 2013, 7:04 pm
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Some aircrafts now with back up history:

The Royal Hellenic Air Force (AU) together with Italian Air Force were the last users of the F-104,with the first going the Starfighter even further.Counting on the excellent attitude of the F-104 on very low heights, a unique SEAD variant was developed.Armed with the indigenous DARE-A (Direction finding,Analysis, REcording and Attack) ESM and 2 AGM-45 Shrike(4 later with multilple pylons) add one role in the Starfighter which its desigher,Kelly Jonhson,never imagine his child could do.The RHAF F-104Gs were also wired for AS.30 and AGM-65 missiles,later received even indigenous laser targeting pod and AS.30L,OMI-65L and LGB Bombs (Laser Guided Bomb,an indigenous "Paveway-like" bomb family),making it a formidable opponent in battlefield.Also they used US Paveways as well.Finally,in early to mid 1980's,RHAF received ex-Marineflieger airframes which were capable of firing Kormoran missile,so together a number of these missiles were purchased.The anti-ship F-104s passed to naval Aviation in 1987 and some wired for Penguin Mk3 as well in 1990.In 2007 the venerable Starfighter was withdrawn from service,after 43 years of service.However,RHAF retains few in flying condition,one TF-104G as a meteorological aircraft-which carries pods with research instruments,one F-104G named "Olympos" and the F-104M "Tiger" in airshows such as RIAT,Arhagellos (RHAF own airshow) and others.Note that RHAF had the lowest accident rate of all F-104 users.And this is last is real feature,not alternate.

In mid 1950's RHAF used F-84G/F for strike missions and F-86E for interception,but an new,more capable aircraft was needed.So,Ministry of Defense asked SHAF aicraft designer,Antonius Raab to design it.In Novenber 1957,Raab showed in the Armament Comitee the design R-57.It was powered by twin Aerodyne J110 turbojets,10320lbf each,capable of 1.6 Mach in high altitude and transonic in sea level with 3.5tn weapon load.The R-57 looked like the Starfighter in nose,but had different wings and convectional tail with a large tail fin for stabilitity.The aircraft had fuel everywere,in fuselage,wings and tailfin,since J110 was reliable,but thirsty,especially with afterburner on.Air intakes were simple and this limited the top speed of the aircraft, together with the larger diameter of the fuselage. It looked promising and offered in good price,so two prototypes were ordered for evaluation.After succesful testing in 1960-61 first 40 units were ordered.These were "R-57A",the attack variant and RHAF received first 6 in 1962.The R-57 remain in production for 18 years and total number or airframes reached 224,the largest number of one type ever for the Air Force since the Mirage 2000 program.Next variant was the R-57B,which was powered from the ultimate J110,the J110-AD-120,with 12400lbf instead of 10320lbf of the R-57A.The new engines significanlty improved performance,rising top speed in 1.8 Mach (nearly 2 in dive).The R-57B was a fighter bomber,capable of taking up to 6 Sidewinders/Falcons or 4 in wings and one 1000lt drop tank under belly or bombs of the Mk80 family.Also it could take HOBOS and OMI-16,an indigenous active radar missile which could be fired against land targets or sea targets as well,derived from AGM-12 Bullpup but similar with the Sea Marte in appearence..This variant was the most numerous (100 built).The next,R-57C retained the -B engines but it could fired also french missiles such as Matra R550 and R530/530F well before the Mirage F1CGM.The last new built R-57 were the -D,which was a SEAD variant using the equipment of F-104RD above.Note that "RD" means "Radar Destroyer" and is the term RHAF uses for SEAD-capable aircrafts.The D is from the word "Destroyer".The R-57D was also capable of using the OMI-78 ARM (AGM-78) as also the F-104RD Mk2 could.The R-57E ("Electronic") were modified ex -B airframes and appeared in 1987.They had the DARE-J pod (J is for "Jammer") and several other EW equipment.In late 1970's all -A were modified to -B spec and in 1980's several -B were modified to -C spec or D/E spec due to the much better Mirages F1CGM/2000EG/EGM..Another user of the R-57 was Cyprus,via "ELDYK Air Force",which received 60 airframes in 4 "squadrons".The R-57s fought in 1974 War with the result of 40 losses,highest among RHAF aircrafts used in the war.The R-57 was withdrawned from RHAF service in October 2006,five months before F-104G.Cyrpus received more airframes in 1980's and Cypriots did make their own modifications in the aircrafts,mainly in electronics.Cyprus continued to use the R-57K2 ("Κύπρος") until 2012.Among the modifications of the R-57K was a helmet-mounted sight (which was originally developed in Hellenic Kingdom with Israel assistance for F4E Mk2 in late 1980's) modified for R-73 missiles. Also Cyprus used Python 3 and finally the R-57KS could use the Gabriel IIIAS.


Some sources claim that the R-57D could also fire AS-37/OMI-37,but no none ever saw that combination.But Cypriot R-57Cs were capable of firing Soviet/Russian missiles.

R-57 Specifications (single seater)

Total length : 16.73m
Wingspan : 7.86m
Height : 4.65m
Engines : 2 X Aerodyne J110-AD-100,10320lbf (R-57A),2 X J110-AD-120,12400lbf (R-57B/C/D/E)
Weights : Empty 6750kg,max take off 14000kg/15890kg
Useful load : 3570 kg / 4850 kg in 6 pylons,2 under fuselage or one center and 4 under wings
Load : AIM-9,Magic,R530/530F,AGM-65,OMI-16,HOBOS,AGM-45,OMI-78,AS-34 Kormoran AS-30,bombs,rocket pods (2.75",3.5",5" or Soviet 57mm/80mm),K-13/K-8/R-73,Gabriel IIIAS (Cypriot R-57K)
Armament : one M61 Vulcan,20mm
Combat radius : Hi-Lo-Hi with max load 640km,with 4 AGM-65 and 1000lt tank 880km

[ img ]


Last edited by odysseus1980 on December 29th, 2014, 5:10 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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