Shipbucket

@ Blackscorpy

It is fun doing this. It's a great way to pass time and learn new things. This new AU is my 4th or 5th AU, and they have progressively gotten better (at least that's what I think).

The wide variety of vehicles you are referring to is really just a reference for me. Since I plan on designing all of my vehicles, it will remind me what 'type of vehicle' I am shooting for. They are just a reference.

@eswube, you made a really good point. I like the idea. So here is what I am going to do:

Basically what you said. I will field 110,000 conscripts (M&F) for a 1 year period, and put them in line with a 65,000 strong professional force.

As I was figuring I came up with this:

Army: 95,000 - 70,000 conscripts and 25,000 professionals
Air Force: 37,500 - 20,000 conscripts and 17,500 professionals
Navy: 35,000 + 7,500 MSC - 20,000 conscripts and 15,000 professionals

I like your idea of 3 corps with 9 to 12 divisions, so I'm gonna do that. Of course, I only have a basic idea of what that means, so.. Yeah..

I am also going to remove the NatGuard, because the Army could do it's job just as well (Internal Security).

The reserve forces will be in the area of 6.5 million (all able bodied from the age of 15-49)

I also forgot to mention that the MBTs are not all MBTs. Technically there will be some light tanks (like the FV101 Scorpion). Also, the airforce numbers are just basic numbers.

Threat perception. At this point, I'm really not sure. I'm only at 1939 in my history, so as I write it up, more ideas will be available. As of now? China and Pirates.

Back to Blackscorpy, yeah, the navy is a little large, but it is only the same size as the Hellenic Navy. At least I dont have 10 Aircraft Carriers and 20 battleships.
The ICBM force just gives me an excuse to be able to keep people from attacking me. You know, fake Nuclear Deterrent. Of course, don't tell anyone that . Bombers are also a detterent, and are used for bombing the crap out of targets, when 4 MLRS's just don't do a good enough job .

The terrain is harsh, but really only in the mountains and there are numerous access roads, although they can be pretty scary. What do you mean by articulated vehicles? Are you literally talking about Articulated vehicles like the M520 Goer, or do you mean multi-use?

If the troop numbers sound good, then how am I supposed to organize the military and count out the vehicles?
I tried to do a Military Structure like this, but it didn't work out to well.

And back to eswube - maritime helicopter and ASW copter? That's what I saw here.

Missile launchers were just something I added to make the Army more 'colorful.'
I can get rid of them if they are too far out of this world .

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

Okay, but here are some remarks.
1) number of conscripts for Navy and Air Force seems bit too high - rather no more than about half for the navy and 1/3 - 1/4 for the Air Force, especially if - as You wrote earlier, Air Defence Artillery is only in the land force.

2) As for "what 3 corps and 9-12 divisions" mean and how to organized the military and count the vehicles, PM me, we can discuss these issues (but not today my time - it's almost 10:30pm here in Poland ).

3) For the internal security I would think of still having separate structure, as "heavy" army with divisions, tanks and artillery doesn't necessarily fulfills such duties well.

4) You can have 6,5 milion trained reserves, but remember, that there's no point in expecting that in case of mobilization You'll get them all at once into the military.
Soviet Army in 1990 (population of USSR - 288 million) was about 5 million strong (including border and internal troops, railway troops etc.), and the number of actual reserve force was about 5,6 million (that is, the number that in case of war would be actually drafted back from civilian life), while theoretical number of reserves was 55 million (fifty-five million), but I'm not sure if they had even arms for all of them.
In 1979 Chinese People's Liberation Army (4,2 million strong at the time) had some theoretically 200 million (two hundred million) of reserves in People's Militia, but "only" about 5 million of them were to be armed.

5) Well that text in Wikipedia was probably written by some non-native speaker. In that case Lynx is ASW helo and Sea King is for SAR.

6) You don't need to get rid of these launchers completely, just to trim the numbers.
To give an example: Polish Army in the 80s had 13 active tank and mechanized divisions and 3 reserve mechanized divisions. In each division there was (as per Soviet/Warsaw Pact standard) a batallion with 4 launchers of Luna (NATO: FROG) rockets with range of about 100 kilometers (plus 2 launchers in marine assault division and 2 launchers for training). Also there were 4 brigades, each with 9 Elbrus (NATO: Scud) missiles with range of about 330 kilometers - total 36 of them - one brigade for each military district (army in wartime) and one brigade for peacetime training and for the front (army group) in wartime. That gives grand total of 68 FROG's and 36 Scuds.
At the same time US Army had total of 8 batallions of MGM-52 Lance (70-120 km range) with 6 launchers each and 4 or 5 batallions of MGM-31 Pershing (1500km range) with 36 launchers each. Btw. - 6 of Lance batallions and 3 of Pershing batallions were deployed in Germany. (More launchers in Pershing batallions than in Lance batallions may look counter-intuitive, but it was related to their deployment patterns - Lance was corps-level weapon to be located in the proximity of frontline, while Pershing was army/theater-level weapon located in rear areas). Plus a number of training, reserve spares etc.
So (just rough approximate) for army of 3 corps and 9-12 divisions You'll probably need some 20-30 launchers each of tactical and theater types.

1) Ok. So how does this sound?

Army: 95,000 - 70,000 conscripts and 25,000 professionals
Air Force: 37,500 - 10,000 conscripts and 27,500 professionals
Navy: 35,000 + 7,500 MSC - 15,000 conscripts and 20,000 professionals

And then that would leave with 15,000 conscripts unaccounted for, who could then go into the National Guard (if I did keep it).

2) Alright sounds good.

3) I'll just bing the national guard back for now and we can figure that out later.

4) I understand that. It's like in America during WWII, for every soldier that went to combat, there was 10 people to support him, so with that logic, I could theoretically only use a million, maybe 2 million at the max.

5) Of course that makes sense. So basically one should be ASW and the other SAR?

6) Sounds good. We can work some more out later.

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

First me first just say that your military is much improved in both realism and detail!
The size and strength is still a bit much IMHO (especially when your compare it to for example my au Zealandia which has essentially the same population and a fairly larger land mass) however I realize that going for strait realism can sometimes take some of the fun out of an au. One thing I am fairly against is the missiles as no mainly western allied nation in the general area has any nuclear weapons and I just don't see any reason for them. Also I would say that the number of combat aircraft and trainers could be made a bit smaller (mainly the 80 attack aircraft) but thats getting a bit nitpicky. Is the nation the same size as it is on the AU world map if so is there anyway you could make it larger and more northern? Just a thought because I thing it would make your military strength even more realistic.
Keep up the good work!

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Projects:
Zealandia AU
John Company AU
References and feedback is always welcome!

One thing - since WWII, the US forces have been a bit air force heavy. The lack of tactical missiles is partly explained by the number of cruise missiles and tactical, fighter delivered nukes. NATO airforces and somewhat the reliance on ground power in general was a fair reason for the Pact to have some of the best AA systems around, too.

OT now: Regarding the conscript numbers, just to be clear, there aren't going to be 25000 conscripts serving constantly (in FDF). During the few days between recruitment batches, the only active troops are the 9-12 month guys of the previous batch, some 30% (so ~10-15% of the total amount).

By articulated vehicles I was referring to: The Bandvagn series, Sisu Nasu, ST Kinetics Bronco and the Russian Vityaz series (DT-10/20/30). Brits and some other people have been using them in Afghanistan with fairly good results.

Care to explain the National Guard idea? Do they undergo the same basic training and then get shifted to local troops? Or do they undergo the full spectrum of their assigned job, MOS of sorts, and then get posted to the local defence detachments? Or do they volunteer in the beginning? Or...?

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"Flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." - D.N. Adams

Thank you Trojan! I'm still trying to work the kinks out, but I know it is a lot more realistic then when I first came onto this forum... You know, 20 aircraft carriers and 20 battleships for a country of 20 million. Hah! Yeah right .

All of the numbers for the Air Force were decided by looking at the Hellenic Air Force and the German Air Force, and they all have about the same number of personnel and aircraft (except for the bombers).

I will go ahead and post the (very rough) draft of the map (I actually held it up to my screen and traced it in Paint ).

Told you!

The Island on the AU map is hopelessly outdated. That was 4 AU's ago! This one is about 1300 miles across. (1px=1mile)

I doubt the Aussies and the New Zealanders would have any kind of missiles, and the only ones in the 5000 mile radius would be China and maybe India. But, then again, I'm not wanting to be considered a Western or Eastern Country. I'm just an island country . Plus, nothing beats seeing something like this going down the road.

It's funny that you mention that (I was already thinking of something like that before I even started posting). Yes, I am going to have vehicles like the Vityaz and the Bandvagn 206. There is NO doubt about that. Those things are some of the coolest vehicles around!

The National Guard is more of an internal security force and (like the American National Guard) a reserve force. About half of the 35,000 are conscripts, and the other half would be professionals. Does that sound good?

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

Ok, so I have been working on some FD scale vehicles. This is the first set I have completed (I'll worry about the template later)


AIT-2 Batch 1 w/o canvas
AIT-2 Batch 1 w/ canvas
AIT-2 Batch 3 w/ roof

Some history -

In 1958, MTF finalized the replacement for the AIT-1. The AIT-2 was a 8 wheeled, open top, amphibious APC that could carry up to 17 troops. The first Batch proved to be very capable, both on land and off, but many soldiers complained of the shorter sides (to make disembarking easier) exposing the top of their helmets, and later MTF came out with an updated Batch 2, eliminating the short side. The next Batch was updated with a roof and 4 roof hatches, with a reduced troop capacity of 13. In the period between 1958 and 1965, a total of 4500 AIT-2s were built.

Basic specs:
Length - 25.35 Feet
Width - 9.25 Feet
Height - 8.5 Feet
Armor - 9.5 mm

Speed - 50 MPH land, 6.5 MPH Water

Crew - 3
Troop Capactity (Batch 1) - 17
Troop Capacity (Batch 3) - 13

NOTE: The gunner stands between the Driver and Vehicle Commander

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

Ok, no replies on the previous post.. I guess I'll just keep going.

I know I am skipping around, but I will get it all sorted out later.


This is the AIT-5, the 5th APC in the AIT series.

The AIT-5 was concieved in 1991, with the abolishment of conscription and the move to a more professional army underway. Since the setup of of the previous AITs came under fire, Moffet Truck re-designed the whole vehicle, keeping the suspension and engine (although updated), but changing everything else. The AIT-5 retained the side door of the AIT-4, but it was enlarged to a more comfortable 30 inches, and the engine was moved forward behind the drivers and underneath the turret. Where the engine was before, a rear door was added and fold down seats were installed against the wall. The overall capacity was 10 troops in the compartment (12 on overload), and three crew. Like the rest of the AIT series, it was loaded with armor, offering protection from 14.5mm AP rounds all the way around (while earlier AITs only protected from 7.62 mm).

Here are the specs.

Length: 26' 3"
Width 9'9"
Height: 7' 4" (hull), 10' 2" (oa)
Crew: 3+10(12) passengers

Main armament: 30mm autocannon
Armor: protected against 14.5mm AP rounds
Engine: 7.0L twin-turbocharged V8 producing 350hp at 2500rpm
Range: 450-500 miles
Speed - Land: 55 mph
Speed - Water: 6.5 mph

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.

Nice work.
That AIT-5 reminds me a bit the recent Cuban modifications of BTRs.

Thank you eswube

_________________
Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.