Shipbucket

Stop right there.

A ship this dramatically different isn't likely to have much of a basis at all, especially a vessel with significant helicopter faculties to be based on a small OPV (and OPVs are seeing a trend in vast size increases now, such as the Holland class which rivals frigates, the reason being to better accomodate stores and berthing for long patrol missions as well as to have proper helicopter facilities which arguably only now are beginning to be recognized as a vital if not outright necessary asset for patrol missions, particularly in rapid response as it's much easier to send out a helicopter and let the helicopter do what a helicopter's designed to do than gun the ship at full speed; the River class, as the name somewhat implies, are still mostly inshore/harbor/coastal OPVs. What you have is much closer to something like the Holland class, which could almost be called a "blue water" OPV).

In fact I recommend something along the lines of a mini-LPD. Actually I might design something of my own along similar lines.

what most of you who are discussing the AU-history seem to be doing is thinking in linear terms; i e if one condition is altered, then the next event will automatically be cancelled out due to the linearity of the historical process. But what if, instead of known revolutions, coups, wars etc, we insert unknown quantities, which can still bring about a certain symmetry in the historical context and thus achieve some events of which we know of. for example, there might still be French Revolution, napoleon may be killed but instead either Lazare Hoche or Carnot may be elevated to dictatorial powers. Rivalry in Central europe may still happen, but the individual conditions can be altered etc. Now to write an alternate history in such a way requires a firm grasp and understanding of the historical context, so that any alteration will be set in its own context against a general background, and both needs to be in symmetry to function. i have seen some atrocious AU:s were the person (-s) have mainly been interested in promoting vastly inflated defense (or war-) budget. I created, myself, several years ago an alternate history on Russia, where I successfully transformed the Autocracy to a, at least semi, liberal constitutional democracy, and I can vouch for the difficulties and hidden trapdoors laying in wait...

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

This is interesting; and while I would still say that the the linear is more rational, we can still allow for 'known unknowns, unknown unkowns" etc, to paraphrase a U.S. politician. If, say Adolf Hitler had been shot dead during the abortive pusch, instead of being imprisoned, would we still arrive at WWII by another route? Probably, given the tensions already being built into the historical process. And if Roosevelt had lost the election, would U.S, neutrality still have prevented her entry into the war? Anyhow, I'll leave you guys in peace to get on with your AU's. May you prosper

The order for the batch 3 type 22 has been increased to aquiring all four as they are being given away freely under the SDSR. They will all be modernised to carry ASTER but will only fire it when there is one of the new Ocean Class multi-role frigate. The Ocean Class is a modified Sachsen Class frigate thatg carries ASTER instead of standard but still carries ESSM. It also carries RAM, a Oto 76mm stealth gun, torpedos, harpoon and two AW159 ASW/ASuW helicopters.
Alongside this the Air Force has canceled its order of Lynx Wildcat for dilivery in the next two years to receive AW159 for all roles covered with light to medium helicopters starting this year. This means that a new Joint Force Helicopter unit has been set up so that all helicopters are pooled and pilots selected from the air force or the navy. The budget will be paid for half and half by the navy and air force. Air force pilots will also operate of naval ships and naval pilots will operate in the battlefield support role.

Also the navy is in talks with England about acquiring the Ark Royal. The final decision will be announced as soon as a decision has been made.

Just edited to remove ESSM as for some reason I was thinking it was Point Defense (Thinking of old versions)

Nick

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Nick

@ashwellkennedy

There is very little reason to mix-n-match ASTER 15 and ESSM. Once you include ESSM, you're partially down the road of sticking with Standard and other American SAMs.

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and use the new APAR and SMART-L: they are on the dutch parts sheet.... hmm I think there should be an THALES sheet or an new radar sheet, as it isn't good to let people look at the dutch parts sheet for every ship with dutch equipment....

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Shipbucket Wiki admin

Likewise, how compatable are APAR and Aster?

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We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

No reason why they shouldn't work. It would just be a systems integration problem, but when isn't it?

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Not very. Aster is a self-guided missile: It has a complete radar in itself. The Sampson array is mostly there to detect targets and beam early course updates to the Aster missile. But for terminal guidance, the Aster is on it's own.

APAR, OTOH, is a illumination radar as well as a (relatively short range) target detector. It functions on a much shorter wavelenght than Sampson. The upside of this is that APAR is very good at detecting small objects in places with lots of clutter, like a seaskimming missiel in the littorals. It has a high resolution. But you ALSO have to use it for illuminating your targets when your missiels are getting close, because all but the latest Standard missiles only have a reciever set build in.
Because of it's short range you have to pair APAR with a large volume search radar. Sampson, OTOH, is apparently so capable in the volume search mode that the British are wondering if they could have done without SM-1850 altogether.

If you're using APAR, then slinging missiles like Aster is a waste: They are much more expensive than reciever-only missiles.

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Would you please not eat my gun...

More specifically, the performance of ESSM and ASTER 15 are close enough (they're designed for pretty much the same target picture). But yeah, ASTER 15 outperforms ESSM but it's not enough of a justification to go with the ASTER system if you're already set-up for ESSM/Standard.

And SM-2/3 outclass ASTER-30 by a comfortable margin anyway.