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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: November 14th, 2012, 11:09 pm
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5 or 6, I haven't made up my mind. The Kirov had eight(unless I'm mistaken).
Hm, right now we have 24 heavy SSM, 54 long range SAM, and 32 ASSMM(Anti-SSM-Missile) VLSs.
I can see what you mean, but I kind of like it like this, since it further cements the "everything big forward"-idea.

EDIT: Sorry, that's 128 ASSMM


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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: December 30th, 2012, 4:12 pm
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Not an update of ships, though I'm working on having a few more posted soon(at least one remake is planned, it might become two, and I'm working slowly on another ship to be posted. The first of the mentioned will have a top view, don't know about the others). This post is directed towards some ideas for the navy's evolving from the dreadnought era on to the modern day era. It also contains a rough draft of Gotrige's way through the 20th century.
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In 1909, Gotrige's first deadnought battleship, armed with twelve 305mm guns is commissioned. Before WW1 she is followed by another five similar units.
In 1913, Gotrige's first superdreadnought, armed with eight 360mm guns is completed. A half-sister with only six guns and a higher speed is completed as well.
The next large ship to be completed is armed with ten 360mm guns, in 1916. She has one identical sistership.
In 1918-1919 two ships armed with twelve 360mm guns is commissioned.
1920-1921, the Sverkre Grip and Danske Leopard(armed with eight 400mm guns) are completed.
The Washington treaty effectively stops any further battleship building. The remaining battleships consist of the two units of the Sverkre grip class, two units of the BB1918 class, two units of the BB1916 class, and the battlecruiser of the BB1913 class*. All the earlier are scrapped, or converted into training or target ships.
1920-1935 most effort is directed towards cruisers and destroyers of varying sizes. The navy developes a fondness of the heavy cruiser, building six units with eight 203mm guns, and four units with ten. Both these classes are lightly armoured and capable of a bit less than 32 knots. Twelve light cruisers are built, six smaller and six larger.
Gotrige starts making larger destroyers, similar to the Japanese designs in the far East. By 1935, the GRN posess 30 large destroyers typicaly armed with five 130mm guns and capable of speeds in excess of 34 knots. At the same point, 44 smaller destroyers are availible as well, of which 14 are from before 1920.
Two experimental CVs are built, but generaly aren't given much attention. This further solidifies Gotrige's lean towards cruisers.
In 1936, Gotrige officialy breaks with the treaties, due to the Japanese disinterest in staying to it. It also announces that two new battleships will be built within the next five years, as well as an expantion of other forces, mainly cruisers.
Up until 1940, work on one battleship of the enormous 60 000 tons(officialy slated as 50 000 tons, to postpone a new arms race) in Nymark, as well as another twelve cruisers, six heavy, and six light. The latter are converted to CVs halfway through contruction, due to the dire need of airpower on the seas.
In late May 1940, Germany attacks the Gotrige mainland. Several units are lost to the Germans, among others two older battleships. The half modernized Danske Leopard is scuttled. Roughly two quints of the Gotrige ship building industry is cut short, and the rest of the shipbuilding during WW2 is carried out in Nymark. Work on larger units, among others the 60k tons BB is severely slowed. The descission is taken to focus the resources towards ships close to completion, ships that Gotrige already has experiance with, and ships that can be completed quickly. The 60k tonner is about 60% complete at this stage, and work continues, albeit at a slower rate. Most resources are directed towards cruisers and destroyers, due to the time it takes to build a new battleship, and that Gotrige has limited experiance with carriers, compared to other nations. While the war with Germany is now on, only the GRN can truly comtribute to the war effort.
During 1942 Gotrige loses it's colonies in east asia, among others Singapore, to the Japanese. War is declared, but most forces are either destroyed or forced to flee as the Japanese move forward. The majority of Gotrige's continued effort in the Pacific is dedicated to helping Seiran in the Aleutian campaign.
In 1943 the 60k tonner is completed(yes, she returns, with some alteration to the story(and a completly new drawing)and named Vaderneriget. Her making a differance in the war is debated, but she is declared flagship of the GRN, and sent to the south pacific with a sizeable task force, spearheading the Gotrige offensive in the pacific.
In Novemeber 1944 the Gotrige C-i-C of the northern pacific is killed on the Sverkre Grip by a Kamikaze hitting the bridge. The ship is retired, and a newer cruiser takes it's place.
In 1945, the Gotrige mainland is retaken. After the war, the Gotrige ship-building industry has been dealt a crippling blow, and it's not until 1956 that it's back as it was before the war. The other larger powers having build many aircraft carriers in the meantime, Gotrige realizes it cannot regain that headstart and experiance, and starts focusing on surface combatants armed with SSM. In 1962, the first such unit is completed, and several follow. Still favourizing semi-large combatants, a 'standard' design around 12-14 000 tons is worked out in the 1970s, and followed up until the 1990s. Three larger ships, comparable to the Kirovs, are built as a breaking of this pattern.

That's a summary of the Gotrige shipdesigning evolvement during the 20th century. Keep in mind it's very rough, it might not be entirely realistic(holler if something seems very stupid), and I might deviate slightly from what has been said here in the future, but overall I'll try and follow this.

*Since I have yet to come up with any names, the ships are named with the US designation system and year of commissioning in mind.


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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: December 31st, 2012, 4:25 pm
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Aaand an update of ships. I was never quite pleased with the Vaderneriget, so I decided to redo her completly. With a top view.
For inspiration I looked on several different ships, such as the Yamato(off cource), the Richelieu, and the Bismarck. Some features of my old Sverkre Grip has been used as well.
I've redone the FC systems as well, and will fix this for the rest of the earlier vessels as soon as possible.

After Gotrige declared it's official disinterest in the continuation of the treaties in 1936, she announced two battleships would be built within the next five years.
These two would end up at only one, laid down in November 1937. Bigger than any other battleship built by a European country, she wasn't built in the Gotrige mainland, but in Nymark.
Deplacing roughly 61 500 tons with max deplacement, armed with eight pieces of the excellent 435mm/45 M/36 rifle and good for 30 knots, her armour was at "only" 360mm in belt. She had a mixed secondary artillery, consisting of twelve 155mm/55 M/35 and twelve 105mm/60 M/39, the latter capable of high elevation and firing rates. This arrangement was chosen due to the fact that Gotrige had not managed to manufactor a satisfactory middle DP caliber, and not considering the 105mm gun effective enough against surface vessels.
The ship wasn't completed until June 1943, due to the loss in building rate after the Gotrige mainland was lost. After a month of trials, she was sent to the south Pacific with a task force of two light aircraft carriers, six heavy crusiers and five light, as well as 21 destroyers.
However, despite her great cost and the time spended on her, she did not live up to the expectations of the admirality. Not having accomplished any greater deeds during the war, she was regarded as somewhat of a white elephant. She remained in the navy up until 1956, and soon after faced mothballing. In 1961, there were people who wished to preserve her as a museum, but this effort failed, and she was sold for scrap in 1963. Her B turret was preserved though, and adorn the enterance yard to the Gotrige National Maritime Museum.

[ img ]
Quote:
Vaderneriget, Gotrige Superdreadnought Battleship laid down 1935

Displacement:
55 634 t light; 58 518 t standard; 60 287 t normal; 61 702 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(917,78 ft / 898,95 ft) x 117,45 ft x (35,43 / 36,10 ft)
(279,74 m / 274,00 m) x 35,80 m x (10,80 / 11,00 m)

Armament:
8 - 17,13" / 435 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2 821,92lbs / 1 280,00kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1935 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 raised mount
12 - 6,10" / 155 mm 55,0 cal guns - 122,64lbs / 55,63kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
4 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 60,0 cal guns - 38,69lbs / 17,55kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1935 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
36 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 60,0 cal guns - 2,14lbs / 0,97kg shells, 6 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1935 Model
18 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 24 588 lbs / 11 153 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14,2" / 360 mm 587,27 ft / 179,00 m 18,70 ft / 5,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
11,2" / 285 mm 557,74 ft / 170,00 m 18,37 ft / 5,60 m

- Hull Bulges:
0,00" / 0 mm 0,00 ft / 0,00 m 0,00 ft / 0,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19,7" / 500 mm 9,84" / 250 mm 17,7" / 450 mm
2nd: 4,92" / 125 mm 3,15" / 80 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0,47" / 12 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7,09" / 180 mm For and Aft decks

- Conning towers: Forward 13,39" / 340 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 180 181 shp / 134 415 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3 184 tons

Complement:
1 923 - 2 500

Cost:
£24,376 million / $97,502 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 465 tons, 7,4 %
Armour: 24 160 tons, 40,1 %
- Belts: 6 587 tons, 10,9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 4 254 tons, 7,1 %
- Armament: 4 844 tons, 8,0 %
- Armour Deck: 8 032 tons, 13,3 %
- Conning Tower: 443 tons, 0,7 %
Machinery: 5 119 tons, 8,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 21 622 tons, 35,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 653 tons, 7,7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 268 tons, 0,4 %
- Hull void weights: 180 tons
- On freeboard deck: 28 tons
- Above deck: 60 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
99 777 lbs / 45 258 Kg = 39,7 x 17,1 " / 435 mm shells or 20,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,16
Metacentric height 8,4 ft / 2,6 m
Roll period: 17,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,564 / 0,567
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,98 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 19,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 7,87 ft / 2,40 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 31,82 ft / 9,70 m, 27,56 ft / 8,40 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 27,56 ft / 8,40 m, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m, 23,95 ft / 7,30 m
- Average freeboard: 25,55 ft / 7,79 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183,3 %
Waterplane Area: 74 661 Square feet or 6 936 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 225 lbs/sq ft or 1 100 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,26
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Some notes:
That topview was a bloody nightmare. You don't think about it, but it's quite hard to do the this big.
Thinking about it, I might add some details later on... I'll post this for now, and fix that tomorrow though. Or perhaps later.
Anyways, hope you like it. :)


Last edited by KHT on January 1st, 2013, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Raxar
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: December 31st, 2012, 4:30 pm
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Nice drawing KHT!
*Runs away and starts drawing something to counter it.*
;)

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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 12:50 am
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Thanks!
And bring it on! :twisted: 8-) ;) :lol:


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 1:02 am
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that's massive :shock: , and even laid down before IJN Yamato.
the 40mm guns are in 18 mounts tough, not 17 :P
joking aside, i really like it; the boat cranes look very big, but that's just a personal opinion as they don't ruin the ship's appearance at all.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 1:49 am
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Massive? Says the guy who begunn his SB career with a BB armed with 22-inch guns? ;)
She is large, yes, but only barely passes as a superbattleship(+60k tons). And read the story. ;) She's laid down the same month as Yamato(dear lord, had she been laid down in 1935 the builders would be fired for taking eight bloody years to complete her). I'm never very exact with the date in the SS report, mostly becouse I rarely find it to be needed, and becouse I seldom actually post the reports.
The 40mm gun count in the report has been fixed.
The cranes were intended to look big. It was a bloody nightmare to incorporate them into the drawing though(especially the topview).
And thanks! :D


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 10:01 am
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small ship is small!


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 10:01 am
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small ship is small!


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: January 1st, 2013, 10:12 am
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ok, my bad for the 1935/1937 thing, but when i said massive i did not mean't in a negative way :P

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