Norseland: The Viking AU

Woops... mixed up the Mk.12 and Mk.16... Still, it's a fair bit below your stated ROF.
Btw, she looks really nice with the shortened barrels!

I have done some changes to the ship. The TTs are now on the main deck and I have shortened the barrel by about 2/5s. The ship is slightly lengthened, not by much, just enough to improve the looks.

Got some inspiration form this:
http://shipbucket.com/images.php?dir=Ne ... do1943.png

Extra AA guns have been added. I have redesigned the focsle and added some portholes, more are to come.

[ img ]

Torpedoes look better placed now as do the guns.

I'm still sceptical of the speed. I know there were some faster pre war ships however as mentioned earlier, those were of much greater size than this in order to accommodate the large engines, the boilers and all the fuel oil needed just to give them somewhat decent range. Even with that said, most fast large destroyers suffered poor range.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

What if i reduce the speed to 34-35 knots? Would that make it better based on hull shape and size?

I'd say that'd be mores suitable with the size, hull form and period of design you've given for these vessels. That's still plenty of speed to hunt the majority of vessels and should give you some decent range, I'd make a springsharp report to see how it would perform but I'm not on my PC at the moment.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

did you know that Oslo class frigate with Norwegian made 20000 shp engine managed around 31.5 knots with war propellers, and I have heard from one source that HNoMS Bergen was forced up in a speed close to 35 knots!. (Yes Norway had to different type of propellers for their frigates!) So 38 knots is possible for this destroyer (and that he also saying that she loos two knots because of the guns, that give us 36 knots) depending on what type of "know how" have gone in to here. If it was The Norwegian Horten naval yard that build here she would sourly manage 38 knots, just because the "know how" and those Norwegian engines that can manage to deliver a lot of power over size.

The turrets are much bigger and heavier then the old ones. Look at the turrets of the Des Moines, they much bigger than that of previous cruisers.

Here`s the SS report. It seems the destroyer is a complete disaster.

Draugr, Norseland Destroyer laid down 1936

Displacement:
2 755 t light; 2 859 t standard; 2 976 t normal; 3 069 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
396,98 ft / 370,73 ft x 42,65 ft x 11,98 ft (normal load)
121,00 m / 113,00 m x 13,00 m x 3,65 m

Armament:
8 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1,18" / 30,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,82lbs / 0,37kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 513 lbs / 233 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
10 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,00" / 25 mm 0,50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 0,50" / 13 mm, Conning tower: 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 69 086 shp / 51 538 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 4 500nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 210 tons

Complement:
200 - 261

Cost:
£1,996 million / $7,984 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 64 tons, 2,2 %
Armour: 124 tons, 4,2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 0,6 %
- Armour Deck: 102 tons, 3,4 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0,1 %
Machinery: 1 630 tons, 54,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 887 tons, 29,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 220 tons, 7,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1,7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
843 lbs / 383 Kg = 13,5 x 5,0 " / 127 mm shells or 0,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,50
Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 10,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 26 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,550
Length to Beam Ratio: 8,69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 41,65 degrees
Stern overhang: 2,46 ft / 0,75 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,74 ft / 8,15 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 22,97 ft / 7,00 m (21,65 ft / 6,60 m aft of break)
- Mid (30 %): 19,69 ft / 6,00 m (11,32 ft / 3,45 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (60 %): 11,32 ft / 3,45 m
- Stern: 11,32 ft / 3,45 m
- Average freeboard: 14,89 ft / 4,54 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 195,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94,8 %
Waterplane Area: 11 035 Square feet or 1 025 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 250 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,61
- Longitudinal: 1,23
- Overall: 0,65
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

I will say the same I did to Deno... When doing destroyers, and especially super destroyers, one should always keep in mind that springsharp always seems to overestimate the power needed to bring the ship to desired speed.
Also, that seakeeping is unacceptable. While it might not solve the problem entirely, I suggest you get accustomed to using the Trim feature, which allows you to balance the seakeeping(steadiness) and stability against each other. You currently have 1,50 in stability, so you can afford changing it. Off the back of my head, however, I can say that you will have to do more drastical things to make the design work. One thing you should think of is lengthening the hull. You currently have a Length to Beam Ratio of 8,69:1. I'd say you'd require at least a Length to Beam Ratio of 9:1, preferable above 10:1. Decreasing the deplacement will also help.
I had a go at making a similar design. It worked out rather well:

Code: Select all

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1930

Displacement:
	2 387 t light; 2 685 t standard; 3 060 t normal; 3 360 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(496,52 ft / 485,56 ft) x 44,95 ft x (14,11 / 14,88 ft)
	(151,34 m / 148,00 m) x 13,70 m  x (4,30 / 4,54 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5,12" / 130 mm 50,0 cal guns - 70,97lbs / 32,19kg shells, 300 per gun
	  Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1930 Model
	  4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
		2 raised mounts - superfiring
      12 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 60,0 cal guns - 2,14lbs / 0,97kg shells, 8 000 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
	  6 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
		2 raised mounts
      6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm 50,0 cal guns - 0,26lbs / 0,12kg shells, 15 000 per gun
	  Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
	  6 x Single mounts on sides amidships
		4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 595 lbs / 270 kg
      10 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,516 t each, 15,163 t total
	In 2 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	0,98" / 25 mm	      -			      -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 0,59" / 15 mm For and Aft decks

   - Conning towers: Forward 0,98" / 25 mm,  Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, 
	Direct drive, 2 shafts, 39 170 shp / 29 221 Kw = 33,00 kts
	Range 3 000nm at 20,00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 675 tons

Complement:
	205 - 267

Cost:
	£1,295 million / $5,179 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 167 tons, 5,5 %
	   - Guns: 152 tons, 5,0 %
	   - Torpedoes: 15 tons, 0,5 %
	Armour: 136 tons, 4,4 %
	   - Armament: 10 tons, 0,3 %
	   - Armour Deck: 121 tons, 4,0 %
	   - Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0,1 %
	Machinery: 1 169 tons, 38,2 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 837 tons, 27,3 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 673 tons, 22,0 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 78 tons, 2,5 %
	   - Hull void weights: 40 tons
	   - On freeboard deck: 18 tons
	   - Above deck: 20 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  1 226 lbs / 556 Kg = 18,3 x 5,1 " / 130 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
	Metacentric height 2,5 ft / 0,8 m
	Roll period: 12,0 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,48
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,45

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and large transom stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,348 / 0,362
	Length to Beam Ratio: 10,80 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 25,55 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees
	Stern overhang: 3,94 ft / 1,20 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20,00 %,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m
	   - Forward deck:	30,00 %,  18,70 ft / 5,70 m,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m
	   - Aft deck:	35,00 %,  15,09 ft / 4,60 m,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m
	   - Quarter deck:	15,00 %,  15,42 ft / 4,70 m,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m
	   - Average freeboard:		16,88 ft / 5,14 m
	Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 148,3 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,3 %
	Waterplane Area: 13 525 Square feet or 1 257 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs/sq ft or 195 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0,47
		- Longitudinal: 1,06
		- Overall: 0,51
	Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
	Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Note: I don't seem to have the same excessive problem with the SHP... either the program may have glitched on me, or the version(SS V. 3b2a) I use may have remedied that..

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