Shipbucket

I agree with you; those props are rather small.

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We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

The end of WWII was a boon for the Pallamaran Staatmarine (renamed the RijkZeemacht) in that it was able to acquire modern, battle-proven designs cheaply. Chief among these were six Gearing Class Destroyers. These vessels gave excellent service, however by the mid 1960s, the design was starting to show its age, despite several updates along the way. Anticipating that the class would stay in service at least another 10 years, the ships were given a comprehensive upgrade that was unofficially referred to as FRAM III, though no modifications of this sort were done to any Amercian vessels.

Though the resulting vessels were still not fully comparable to modern designs, they represented more capability than any regional entity was able to muster during this period. The units of this class would continue to serve into the late 1980s, when the last were finally replaced with the Medusa Klasse OHPs. Later upgrades included Mk 92 GFCS, NATO Sea Sparrow, and RAM on late serving vessels.

_________________
We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

I think that even for an AU you are streching the Gearings too much. There is no way to install 3 guns and Tartar on a hull just 392ft long. The smallest ship to carry Tartar was the Brooke class and they were 414ft long, and carried only one 5"/38 single mounting with the Tartar magazine having only 22 (?) missiles.

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

The picture of the FRAM III is fascinating.

I agree about the upgrade of the Gearings. The experience with them (the FRAM II's) showed that they were getting top heavy - adding the high after mast and heavy SPS 48 3d radar would be too much.
Also the internal space was cramped. The electronics space requirements for the new systems would have exceeded available space. Plus, new systems would require more crew - not practical in already cramped living quarters.
Finally, the engineering plant (600 psi boilers) was pressed hard. The Fram DD's were not as fast as their un-framed sisters. So this much extra weight would reduce speed substantially (On the engineering side, the added electronics would require significant increases in power generation, meaning more generators)
There is a finite limit on how much can be added to an older design, especially one that had limited additional space/weight available

Weight of the guns isn't so much a problem. The TAK-120 is a lightweight mount with a crew of three compared to those twin heavy 5"/38 mounts with all their assorted WWII artifacts. To me, the Topweight of the SPG 39 (Not 48) and the associated mast as well as the Mk 13 GMLS system itself is more of a concern than the gun mounts, as the vessels actually gain from the removal and replacement of the WWII weapons.

I think the bigger can of worms is the power requirements of the setup as you mentioned. More generators would have to be added, bringing down speed as the ship gains weight and the energy of the vessel is diverted to powering weapons systems. I had my doubts about the validity of that working in the first place and have a version replacing the Mk 13 GMLS with an 12 rd Box launcher. Assuming they are willing to suffer some degradation of range and speed, does that setup with the box launcher work better? If not, I will have to introduce the Brooks (Already in this AU in earlier pages of the thread )earlier, or come up with a replacement beforehand. (Which face it, lets me design more ships)

Here is my altered plan, but even this may be pushing to design too far, as it simply gets rid of the Mk 13.



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_________________
We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

I'd remove the older air search set, and one of the two SPG-51s (especially if you go with a box launcher). For a hull this size if you want an arm launcher go with the Mk-22 instead of the Mk-13. It's going to be smaller and lighter (not that the Mk-13 isn't small to start with)

You did hit part of the nail on the head with the issue of power generation, but missed the flip side - chilled water production. If I remember correctly there were several British designs that were never refitted to missile ships in part because they couldn't generate the chilled water to keep the electronics cool.

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𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐇𝐍𝐄𝐓- 𝑻𝒐 𝑪𝒐𝒈𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝑺𝒐𝒍𝒗𝒆

Also remember that the RN did not have a missile system comparable to Tartar. The Seadart is too big and Seacat is no way comparable.

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

It appears as if, all things equal, a wiser move would be to place the Gearings in reserve as ASW boats, and then replace them in active service with perhaps 3 Charles F Adams Class DDG, or a new design. We are talking about the 1965-1967 period here.

_________________
We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

Flustrated by the inability to upgrade the Gearings further, and deciding not to have to go through the same thing again, the Gearings were instead given a limited upgrade to improve their ASW capability, then packed off to the reserve fleet, where they would rest until finally scrapped in the 1980s. Desiring a large vessel that would the the room to be upgraded over its service life, The six Gearings were replaced on a 1:1 basis by a new class of vessels which were a hybrid of the American Coontz and Charles F Adams Class DDGs, though the units in Pallamaran service would use the same DLG designation as the Coontz Class. Though an expensive acquisition at the time, they proved very upgradable as the years went on, with the last of the class not leaving *Active* service until the mid 2000s.

(Note that with this change of the planned evolution of the fleet, my original Ariadne Klasse (The Brookes) won't get built, so I am simply renaming this class of vessel to match the deleted one)

_________________
We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Built in the 1965-1968 period, it was only after their modernization in the mid 1970s that this class reached its true potential. Though still hampered by lack of helicopter facilities for ASW, the class gained Harpoon, SM-1, (though Tartar continued to be carried for some time) and most importantly, SeaPhoenix capability. These upgrades, as well as the accompanying electronic modernizations, made them truly capable of projecting Pallamaran influence in the region. Far superior to anything India, or Indonesia could float, they were the preferred escorts to the Staadt Klasse BCGs, and made many visits to foreign ports accompanying the battlecruisers.

The lack of onboard ASW helos, however, resulted in the specifications for a new class of destroyers capable of carrying these, the orginal Dido Klasse, which was to grow into a class of CGs, after considerable delay.

It was during this time that the monarchy, bolstered both by oil money and the influx of immigration began to adopt the current navalistic policy of using the Rijkszeemacht as a foreign policy tool, to ensure that Pallamaran concerns were addressed around the region. A relatively small island, it was nonetheless a small island with a powerful fleet, which gave it a voice where it otherwise would have struggled to be heard. Although part of the PANZUS Treaty from the beginning, it was during the 1970s that the nation first started leasing permanant basing rights to the USA, begun during the Nixon administration, allowing the United States a comfortable base from which to project power in the region, and placing the Grand Duchy firmly in the middle of Cold War politics.

(With any luck, I'll be doing a 1980s version as well)

_________________
We can't stop here--this is Bat country!

If it's close enough to cast a shadow, I think the flying house wins initiative.

Bronies are like the Forsworn. Everyone agrees that they are a problem but nobody wants to expend the energy rooting them out.

"That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way."