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eswube
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: September 25th, 2012, 10:05 am
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Browse the internet for information about planned Buccaneer derivatives like B.112 or P.150 (try secretprojects.co.uk for example), maybe they will be of some use for You.


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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: September 28th, 2012, 4:38 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
Something else,about aircrafts now.Chinese designed the Nanchang A-5 from the MiG-19,Indians the HAL Ajeet from Folland Gnat and finally Israelis the Kfir from the Mirage III/V.I thought an AU aircraft based on Buccanner frame.Engines are a non afterburning variant of SNECMA M53 with about 6500kg thrust each,electronics include terrain following radar (which original Bucc did not have) and other are lisence made from Israel.Also the aircraft have modified wings.Modern stand-off weapons will be also carried.How plausible is this?
SHAF has the blueplrints,since the aircraft made with license.
That sounds like something that would work, at least with a quick glance-over.


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: September 28th, 2012, 7:11 am
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The variant I have in my mind is a strike aircraft,not a fighter/bomber.A non afterburning M53 has 14400lbf of thust,those engines could increase load by about 2 tons.Air intakes will have a more "stealthy" design to reduce RCS (Bucc must had large RCS,due to exposed engine fans looking from the nose).A strengthened,larger wing will have two more pylons plus two more in fuselage.The internal bay is retained of course.Perhaps the aircraft could fly at supersonic speed with 28600lbf thrust,but this is not the point.
The SNECMA M53 is smaller and lighter (for M53-P2 Wikipedia says 5.07m X 0.796m X 1515kg,dry thrust 14300lbf,afterburning 21400lbf) while RR Spey Mk202 is 5.204m X 1.092m X 1856kg,12140lbf/20500lbf.Bucanner S.52H had the RR Spey Mk101,with 11100lbf thrust.Is this conversion plausible?


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: September 28th, 2012, 2:01 pm
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I think it sounds pretty plausible but when are u plannin doing this? The time frame is what makes
It realistic or not for me

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 4th, 2012, 6:21 am
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About late 1980s to early 1990s.Prototype flew in 1992,first aircraft for evaluation in 1994,first units entered sevice in 1995 and last from 60 converted delivered in 2001.Airframe is about 70% identical with Buccanner.
There was a whole supporting line behind the Bucc in Hellenic Kingdom,availablity was ~90%.

P.S The designation "Buccanner S.52H" says about this aircraft.It was a cross between the SAAF S.50 and RN S.2B."H" is for "Hellenic".


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 4th, 2012, 6:46 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
About late 1980s to early 1990s.Prototype flew in 1992,first aircraft for evaluation in 1994,first units entered sevice in 1995 and last from 60 converted delivered in 2001.Airframe is about 70% identical with Buccanner.
There was a whole supporting line behind the Bucc in Hellenic Kingdom,availablity was ~90%.

P.S The designation "Buccanner S.52H" says about this aircraft.It was a cross between the SAAF S.50 and RN S.2B."H" is for "Hellenic".
Early 90ies? That's extremely late for a Buc derived aircraft. IIRC it was withdrawn in 1996.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 4th, 2012, 10:05 am
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First 20 RHAF AU Buccanners delivered in 1963-1964 from UK and SHAF (State Hellenic Aircraft Factory) license-made 64 more from 1965 to 1969.Perhaps I can move this timeline 5 years earlier,but note that real Hellenic Air Force still flies the A-7E (they will be withdrawned from service next year).The S.52H did not have the RATO system of the S.50 (2 Bristol Siddeley BS-605 rockets).In my scenario this aircraft replaces the real A-7H/A-7E.

Airframes were rebuilt and strengthened for the new engines,has a different,longer nose (about 30cm) and wingspan is 14.2m.Wings are not only longer,they have greater surface too.Last aircraft,designated R-222,delivered in 1996 with the new timeline.


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 6th, 2012, 6:15 am
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If your gonna modernize them I would say the 80s at the latest in my opinion because IMHO the basic design, forgetting mods is a bit long in the tooth for a full blown modernization in the 90s

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 10th, 2012, 7:54 am
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So the program seem to have 2 phases:In the 1980s the first phase included the electronics and in the 1990s the second phase was the R-222/S.52 Mk2.


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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Some questions about Ships and WeaponsPosted: October 11th, 2012, 5:08 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
Airframes were rebuilt and strengthened for the new engines,has a different,longer nose (about 30cm) and wingspan is 14.2m.Wings are not only longer,they have greater surface too.Last aircraft,designated R-222,delivered in 1996 with the new timeline.
It sounds plausible, and such an aircraft could be kept in service up to the early 2000s, but it would be functionally obsolete as a front-line strike craft. At that point you could consider something like a Rafale as a replacement (also dual-role replacement for whatever front-line fighter would be due up for retirement).


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