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MavGaz
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 4:27 pm
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Hood wrote:
MavGaz,

I've no complaints about your desire to draw real-ships and seek perfection.
However, you are still a newbie and unless you've scoured the Parts Sheets and other drawings for up to date parts your going to miss them and re-invent the wheel. The Harpoon lanchers I'm sure have already been redrawn at least once. We can't keep on redrawing the same parts, the whole idea is to have a set that everyone can use and that is good enough at our scale to represent the real thing. I leave the radar issue for you and Ace to sort amongst yourselves.

Here is the Lynx, already redrawn (by I think Darthpanda) and further modified by me to better represent the British version and which is miles better than the old one you've stumbled across. You should be able to re-colour this into a Mk95 with few problems.

[ img ]
Hi hood..

I can be newbie in the forum, but I've done my research.. this chopper is also with a bad design, even to don't talking about the missing radar and sonar..
The more English approach to the Mk95 is the Has3s
[ img ]
This is your suggestion.. [ img ] vs [ img ]

The windows angle still keep too smooth like a dauphin, the tail is better but not enough..
The nose is longer and thinner not so round as in the draw, as all lynx are.
[ img ]
The side door and window are bigger..
The fuselage is not so higher you have almost 1/2 foots, this more volume area make difference to the reality.
Also as you defend the scale, the chopper representation you showed has less 1 foot(2pixeis) then the real chopper size.

I think is almost impossible to prove otherwise.. but let me know what you defend..


Last edited by MavGaz on October 9th, 2012, 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 4:32 pm
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it is kind of weird that the portugese lynxes differ so much, as 2 of them are actually ex RN lynxes! the sonar and radar are indeed unique to the portuguese version, so you could add those, but you still should start from the one present in the bucket, IMO, even if only for the sake of commonality between the different drawings.

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MavGaz
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 4:58 pm
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acelanceloet wrote:
found your problem! you put the radar too high! it is on top of the railing on the platform instead of partially behind it.
also, there seems to be an different stabilisation foot.
antenna size is taken as everything above the stabilisation foot, as that part, as shown here, can vary between different ships, even within the same navy (the dutch ship rotterdam carries an DA-08 with an different stabilisation foot then the one carried by the heemskerck class, which is shown in my drawing)
then, looking at the measurement you gave, my version is actually correct.
[ img ]
for the IFF bar. I think you are right that the IFF bar could be one pixel lower. BUT not 2 pixels, as you have done. placing it one pixel lower though, creates an double black pixel line, which is frowned on in shipbucket. it is allowed in cases like that to overstate parts sizes, and that is exactly what I have done here.
the bar should be a bit lengthened for the vasco da gama drawing though, as you have done.
also, http://www.areamilitar.net/directorio/IM_sys/da08_1.jpg this picture shows an different version of the radar then what is depicted here. that version can be found on the dutch parts sheet as well, and as you can see I have there shown the IFF bar as you have shown (although that bar is an smaller type, as again these can vary between ships :P)

EDIT: also, an measurement based on the official plans of the dutch L-frigates, which used the same radar, gave me 33 pixels, effectively making my drawing 2 pixels too small!
so, case closed, the main radar, apart from the IFF, stays as it is.

EDIT 2:
here, doesn't this look better?
[ img ]
also, please lower the STIR's one pixel, as right now they form black blobs, which, as told above, are considered ugly in here. same for the phalanx.
Great acelanceloet..

Thanks for the patience solve this case, and sorry on the time lost..With a such newbie error.. :roll:
Really the antenna is 2 pixies lower than the real!? :? so i was right, the antena has the dimensions wrong.. :lol:
Yes it fits well now.. hehehe..


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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 5:32 pm
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Head over parapet ;) Is this another case of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Meaning: Shipbucket was established by the God's of Yore to create a data base for actual ships, so folk could use our drawings for recognition and reference. The problem here -seems to be a new member taking an already drawn ship and wanting to re-design not just the ship but a lot of the actual parts that went into it, such as the Lynx. While I'm tolerant of the former I'm concerned about the latter; simply because if we go down this road then we'll be accepting any member using the same criteria to introduce new parts when we already have ones fit for purpose?

Bottom line. Why don't you new guys draw something new?


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MavGaz
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 7:03 pm
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Portsmouth Bill wrote:
Head over parapet ;) Is this another case of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Meaning: Shipbucket was established by the God's of Yore to create a data base for actual ships, so folk could use our drawings for recognition and reference. The problem here -seems to be a new member taking an already drawn ship and wanting to re-design not just the ship but a lot of the actual parts that went into it, such as the Lynx. While I'm tolerant of the former I'm concerned about the latter; simply because if we go down this road then we'll be accepting any member using the same criteria to introduce new parts when we already have ones fit for purpose?

Bottom line. Why don't you new guys draw something new?
hi Bill,

Good comment and time to reflect..
As you said, shipbucket is indeed a database of ships that people look as a recognition and reference tool, however when we users see the ships with reference errors, try to be a new member to fix it..So Shipbucket will always have the creator members and the rework guys(if never be closed that option by rules). My case, is a rework guy and if necessary I insert all the my rework parts in all ships needed to be updated..
In my point of view, I think if all corrections (PROVED) will be update is better for shipbucket prestige and users benefits. So if the God and members pretend to keep the old parts without update and corrections, in my case (not creator) I'm not doing noting here, and will do those corrections and use as I wanted in my notebook..

Moreover the upgrades has a limit turns of rework, because perfection has the divine end..

Lets God pronounce, and members speech.. hehehe

Edit: Question!? How can a guy create when has scale errors and is force to used the incorrect part..
(last discovery, example:Harpoon Mk 141 update part has the capsules sized/scale with 5.60m when the real lenght is 4.7!)


Last edited by MavGaz on October 5th, 2012, 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 7:07 pm
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well, while it is good to see more authors improve parts, make sure you studied them thoroughly before making edits, and, do not recreate parts that have just been recreated again :P
also, I would love to see parts that are detailed and complete (belowdeck) enough to be included here:
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... =16&t=2755

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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 5th, 2012, 9:42 pm
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one minor nitpick
theres a new version of the Sea Sparrow missile on the US Part Sheet

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 6th, 2012, 9:37 am
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MavGaz,

I agree that there are some areas where the Lynx does not 100% match, but remember that at this scale some details have to be altered so thay look right. It's a balance between making what is there look accurate but within the constraint that you can't show everything (we all know window frames aren't 6 inches thick but that is how they are shown at this scale!) or sometimes a little bit of extra space is required, Darth did the basic drawing so in his mind the extra 1 pixel of cabin depth is probably worth it to get the proper windows/ doors and areas in their correct locations.
Looking at your Lynx there are few real differences overall in shape. Your's lacks panel lines, has a few stray grey pxiels within the outline lines, the rear of the cabin door window is grey not black plus the door isn'r properly outlined and several aerial details are lacking. So I've made a Mk95 using the standard Lynx and I've made a few changes to the windows and door incorporating elements of your version. I hope you find this revised version more accurate for your needs.
[ img ]

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 7th, 2012, 5:58 pm
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Maybe see where this one goes? MavGas come across as being well motivated; so, see what he ends up with ;)


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ALVAMA
Post subject: Re: Portugueses Update and CorrectionsPosted: October 7th, 2012, 6:00 pm
For me, it seems he just like to prove something, tbh.


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