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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 2:48 am
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I'm posting a WIP, for a number of reasons. The main reason is that I want to know if I screwed up to badly before I add too many details. This is really just a layout stage WIP.
On the weaponry; those are essentialy 155mm versions of the TAK-120(I like big guns even on my missile ships). The CIWS are based of the Goalkeeper CIWS. The SAM is a Gotrige mod of the Seacat, and the SSM(tubes)are relatively comparable to the Harpoon.
Anything I should add/take away?
Any critizism is welcome. :)
[ img ]

EDIT: I'm thinking of replacing the aft turret with a Talos or similar long-ranged SAM. Wrong/Right?


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 5:57 pm
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That would make sense though talos is a bit huge for your ship
I think terrier at the most would better suite it or a similar launcher such as the French equivalent whose name escape me but I believe is something like mureca but maybe not or even with some modifications a sea dart though that may be a bit big
Nice start though what time Period is this from though, because Ciws essentially replaced sea cats and I dot know of many if any ships that carried both

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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 7:22 pm
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I'm evolving a more Sea Dart-ish sized SAM, as I felt about the same for the Talos.
It enters service 1974-1976-ish. I'm no specialist on the subject, but I thought the Sea Cat was a short ranged SAM, while CIWS were usually SSM counter measure weapons.
Only real thing left on the drawing is currently adding details. Hopefully I'll bring it about tomorrow of the day after that. :)


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travestytrav25
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 8:00 pm
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Unless your Sea Cat mods have a significant range increase over the real Sea Cats, then the CIWS would basically fill the same role. CIWS are designed to take down missiles, but if it can take down a missile, it can just as easily (if not more easily) take down an aircraft at close range. And the Sea Cat only had a km or so of additional range over more advanced CIWS guns. However, if your upgraded Sea Cats have better range, then they might still have some usefullness alongside your CIWS.

Anyway, it looks like a good start. And if it's coming online in the '70s, I think the aft SAM launcher is a good idea.

Oh, and Trojan, the french version of the Terrier was called the Masurca, an acronym for Naval Surface Anti-Aircraft missile (obviously in French though).


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eswube
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 8:02 pm
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Interesting idea, but I have few remarks.
One is that decks seem very low - I'd add at least 2 pixels of height to each (at least in the superstructure).
Second is that the underwater hull seems bit too much curved where the propellers will be (usually it's rather smooth angle). Also, it makes the question, wether the aft gun (especially 155mm) will have enough space underneath (because of the profile of the underwater part of hull).
CIWS are indeed anti-SSM weapons, but they generally appeared only about early 1980s (Goalkeeper 1979, Phalanx 1980).
Also, the very short ranged (and already bit outdated) Seacat seems rather small weapon for a modern cruiser.
(And Trojan is partially right in that the usefulness of both CIWS and Seacat is in basically the same range bracket).
And in the end (but that's purely esthetical) - the SSM launchers (esp. the grids they are located on) look quite austere. Personally I'd opt for more boxy ones like Exocet MM38 or Otomat. But that's just a loose opinion. ;)


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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Well, the Gotrige "Seacat"(within quotas becouse it's based of the seacat, but has gone through several mods)has somewhat increased range. I'll be thinking over the SAM vs CIWS matter for a bit.
I would like to point out that several IRL navies kept the Seacat even into the 80's, the British flagship during the Falklands War, for example - The HMS Glamorgan, was carrying the Seacat. So having this ship carrying it would actually be very plausible. :)
The decks are 15 pixels high - that's about 2,3 m - granted, part of that goes for the actuall floors, but I consider it to be ample. I can increase it one or two pixels if needed be however.
I'll be seeing to the aft hull form... you're right about that one.
That aft 155m gun has been replaced by a Sea Dart comparable system(Not visible on current pic), so no worries there.
I tried more boxy SSM launcher initially, but felt more happy with these.

Hope my reply/explanations was satisfactory.


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 10:48 pm
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I don't disagree about using Gotrige type Seacat as an initial close in missile on this ship at all, many many navies were still using it at the time, thats a valid points its just more no one used both, while I think your costs would be kind of high using four CIWS (i believe) and a seacat, your ship would have excellent close in protection, though seacat was pretty ineffective, especially against missiles by this time as the Falklands proved, (yours isn't the seacat, its your version of it, so I'm sure you can just have it be much improved compared to the actual Seacat.) If you keep the seacat type launcher I would consider replacing it with the NSSM or your equivalent to it sometime in the 80s ish
btw I like your missile launcher fine they remind me of the box RB08 launchers with a Russian twist for some weird reason

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KHT
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 11:05 pm
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I think I'm going to finish this one with Gotrige Seacat, and make a larger cruiser for flagship duty, say entering service 1980-ish with CIWS instead, as well as stronger overall armament.
And on the missile launcher, thanks! That's actually exactly what I intended lookwise. It's also the only missile I've named so far: Surface Target Missile: M/72 "Gungnir", named after the unstoppable throwing spear of the Norse god Odin. I think it fits. ;)


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 3rd, 2012, 11:46 pm
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Thats is a pretty awesome name for a SSM
and you can maybe replace the Seacat with the CIWS in a refit
btw what caliber is the CIWS

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eswube
Post subject: Re: AU Empire of GotrigePosted: August 4th, 2012, 8:11 am
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During the Falklands War the Seacat was already totally outdated. For 80 launches there was only one score. It's most positive feature was that it almost never malfunctioned despite the harshest weather conditions. So trying to upgrade a Seacat-clone for a 1980s combat environment would mean essentially building new missile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Cat_missile#Service

But of course it's Your design. ;)


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