Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 1 of 3  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 »
Author Message
APDAF
Post subject: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 26th, 2012, 9:07 pm
Offline
Posts: 1508
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:42 am
As a lot of people are criticising my ideas for my AU I am seeking help with general concepts and history about the AU and Empire.

I do have the map of the world if that helps.

First I think starting with the history of the world will be a good starting point.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 27th, 2012, 9:43 am
Offline
Posts: 10696
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
First of all, I genuinely and wholeheartedly wish You a good luck and great fun in pursuing Your AU (while concurring with the general criticism about the feasibility of the ideas You've put into Your AU so far).
I know that You have certain issues, and therefore it's very likely that Your presence, adding pictures, interactions with other member etc. have a significant meaning to You. Therefore I would not want to discourage You in any way from participating in this forum.
Problem is, that during Your stay here, You have gained a reputation of a person that is rather unwilling to listen to advice (or at least very slow to change anything at all), which is most likely going to severely impair other people's willingness to help You with that.

There has been a suggestion recently, that You should rather start with some smaller AU - little country without global ambitions.
It could help You improve Your skills, learn about ship (and aircraft) design, etc. etc.
And this is something I am really encouraging You to do.

You could still keep Your idea of the Britannian Empire for later, to rework it when You will have more knowledge about necessary things.
Unfortunately, most concepts in Empire AU would have to be scrapped.
Probably most viable thing in it is the general concept of British-German empire.
But without god-emperor living on a battleship-sized armored yacht, Vatican migrating to Nigeria, slow technological progress despite constant war of everyone against everyone, having only 6 states on the whole planet etc.

Yet creating a viable AU based on such idea, while potentially extremely interesting, would also create numerous challenges and would need much skill.
Between 1701 and 1837 there was a personal union between Great Britain and german Kingdom of Hanover. Turning such personal union into real union, followed by Hanover's expansion and taking over most of german states (instead of Prussia which did it in the second half of XIX century) could produce very interesting outcomes.
Primary condition, hovewer, would be to keep the ambitions (of the AU's designer, that is You, and perhaps anyone who would decide to help You) relatively limited, to: what could reasonably happen, had certain events happened the other way then they really did.
Existence of such British-German state would probably significantly change the course of the Napoleonic Wars and quite likely preclude happening of both world wars in the way we knew them (although there potentially could be some other world wars, in different coallitions, years, circumstances - possibly between Empire and France as the core of the conflict).
Task of designing such AU, hovewer, is simply HUGE.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Raxar
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 27th, 2012, 2:12 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1407
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 4:49 pm
Location: Michigan
I agree with Eswube, the German-British idea is the most feasible, but like he said, it is a lot of work.
I can't say much right now (my internet is out and I'm on my phone) but if you want another idea, here's one that I've thought about for a while: "What if the British lost the Boer War and the Orange Free State and Transvaal eventually merged into one state?"
Regaurdless of what you choose, the main thing to keep in mind is that feasibility is key. Ask yourself, "If this happened instead of this, how would the outcome be different? Another thing is to remember that after you change something in history, everything after that point has to be rewritten. You can still follow the general path of history (this works especially well in non-world dominating AU's) but maybe some things are different. There could be another war or two, or some wars don't happen the way they did in real life or at all because of your country.
The best advice drawing wise is to start with something small and easy to draw, like a destroyer or minesweeper or a light cruiser or even an early submarine, not a big all powerfull battleship.
Above all, the main issue with your current AU is plausibility. A while ago I told you that you should start over, and you said that it would mean scrapping months of work, and asked why. I will tell you why, bacause the entire concept of a world dominating empire facing fewer than five adversaries who are too stupid to build anything comperable to said empire's technology is completely flawed.
If you do some research, compromise a bit, and think about realistically what would happen, (and put down the WH40K) then you will have a plausible AU.
Some things that can help you are lokking at other AU's. Some good ones are Redhorse's Texas, Thiel's Denmark, Denodon and KHT's Seirian and Gotridge, and Huehen's Haram. (Although something like Haram is a bit ambitious.)

_________________
Worklist

"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
APDAF
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 5:49 pm
Offline
Posts: 1508
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:42 am
It more of a Nineteen Eighty-Four based idea than WH40K based.

Of course without ing-soc.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Raxar
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 6:16 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1407
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 4:49 pm
Location: Michigan
I think you're still missing the point, the key here is not to go with a world dominateing empire facing only 4 or 5 other powers, but to go with something a bit more plausible, like, say, a small country comes into existance after a war of independance, or a historical event turns out differnely than it did in real life (suggestions of such events are scattered throughout some of your other threads).
In 1984, Orwell explains the existance of only 3 global powers as the result of postwar tensions, Oceana composed of NATO countries, Eurasia consisiting of the Soveit Union and it's puppet communist states, and Eastasia comprising mostly everyone else, primaily the countries of the 3rd World, on neither the Soveit or NATO side. Realistically this is not a plausible scenario, but it's function is to serve as a backdrop for his point that evils exist everywhere, it just depends on your perspective. (And that communism and socialism are bad and only work when the right person is in charge.)

_________________
Worklist

"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
APDAF
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 7:56 pm
Offline
Posts: 1508
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:42 am
I said in the OP that I want help with the Britannia AU not being told that I should scrap it because that would be a waste of my time and I don't like my time being wasted.

There are reasons why I want a world with a totally different history.

1) Several events and technologies that I do not like or will change the world too much I can either avoid or not have happen.
2) I can have ideas that are interesting and/or slightly absurd in our world like only one sect of Christianity and having other religions being extinct.
3) I can control the world events unlike in AU's set in a real world where Germany is picked on too much in ww1 or the communist revolution happening in Russia rather than other places.
4) I can change the way the world works like democracy is only talked about theoretically.
5) I am like having large empires for many different reasons (there are too many to list)

But you have made errors in your text, that I will correct.

1) The empire is not world dominating where is the fun is that?
2) It is not every man or nation for him self there are two factions or put more to the point pacts for example The Empire of Britannia is 'allied' with The Empire of Japan and the South American Unity for the reason that the the main religions in Britannia and Japan are very similar and that the South American Unity rebelled against the Spanish and Portuguese which are mainly Catholic countries and therefore instantly made it self an ally of The Empire of Britannia. the same thing can be said when the United Soviet Sates of America declared its independence against the Empire of Britannia.
3) Yes I know that about Nineteen Eighty-Four and this to an alternative to our rather safe and boring existence.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 8:36 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 3765
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 3:06 am
Contact: Website
APDAF wrote:
I said in the OP that I want help with the Britannia AU not being told that I should scrap it because that would be a waste of my time and I don't like my time being wasted.
We don't like you wasting our time either.
APDAF wrote:
<Snip>
I think the fundamental issue is that you have some 'grand' (as in scale) ideas, but you really don't know how to implement them. The suggestion that most people have given is to reduce the scale, figure out how to make a smaller scale work, and then move up to a larger scale. You don't have to scrap all of what you have, but do something more manageable first.

_________________
𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐇𝐍𝐄𝐓- 𝑻𝒐 𝑪𝒐𝒈𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝑺𝒐𝒍𝒗𝒆


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Raxar
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 9:18 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1407
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 4:49 pm
Location: Michigan
APDAF wrote:
I said in the OP that I want help with the Britannia AU not being told that I should scrap it because that would be a waste of my time and I don't like my time being wasted.
First of all, let me make it clear that we have always been trying to help you, but all that time you haven't listened. Yes, all that time was wasted, but who's fault is that?
APDAF wrote:
There are reasons why I want a world with a totally different history.

1) Several events and technologies that I do not like or will change the world too much I can either avoid or not have happen.
2) I can have ideas that are interesting and/or slightly absurd in our world like only one sect of Christianity and having other religions being extinct.
3) I can control the world events unlike in AU's set in a real world where Germany is picked on too much in ww1 or the communist revolution happening in Russia rather than other places.
4) I can change the way the world works like democracy is only talked about theoretically.
5) I am like having large empires for many different reasons (there are too many to list)
Like has been said, reconstructing world history from an early point is very difficult and requires a lot of skill and reasearch. (Which you seem to lack in both cases.) Actually, ALL AU's have a different world history.
1. This is actually why we have AU's, but just because you don't like something in history doesn't mean that you can get rid of it. That is too messy and can actually kill the fun in making an AU. Some things can be avoided, others added, but nowhere near to the extremes that you have taken them. In many instances it is more fun to work around and invent creative solutions to historical events that you don't like.
2. No one is saying that you can't do this, what is being said is that how you are doing it and to the degree that you are taking it is not possible. Go for unusual, just do your research and make sure it can work in a feasible world.
3. Again, this is another reason that we have AU's. We are not saying that you can't alter world events, far from it. What is being said is that the way in which you alter them, to the far extremes and in a matter that makes it look like you have never even picked up a history textbook, is not possible. Again, for the Ump-Thousandth time, Do Your Research. Make Sure That Whatever You Do Has Some Realistic Backing And Plausibility To It.
4. The only way that you could really do this is to completely destroy the Enlightenment Era, which would be imposible to do. Even in a Meglamaniacle World Dominating Empire.
5. Again, having an empire isn't the issue, it's the degree to which you are taking it. As it has been said, There Is No Way That There Could Ever Be Less Than Ten Individual Factions On Earth. Period. If you want something like that, I suggest that you go to NS.
APDAF wrote:
But you have made errors in your text, that I will correct.

1) The empire is not world dominating where is the fun is that?
There is plenty of fun in having an AU that is not world dominating. If you don't think so, then how is it that there are so many of them? (Theil's Denmark, Sierian, Cenet, Grey's Harbour, North Point, New Holstein, Psilander's Sweden, 80% of the AU forum, etc.) First of all, one of the key advantages is the amount of research. It takes a lot less work to invent a country like (for example) Cenet, than it does to invent something on the order of Britania in a plausible manner. Another reason is all of the interesting ships a small country may have, given budget constraints. It alows you to flex your imagination and come up with smaller hybrids that can do multiple jobs that a bigger navy would have purpose specific ships for. Other members can tell you more reasons than I have time to list hem here.
-------------------------
In short, APDAF, the problem is that you have been unwilling to listen and take heed of our advice. If you start to do that, only then will you improve. That is why all of the past few months have been wasted.

_________________
Worklist

"If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done." ~Ludwig Wittgenstein


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
APDAF
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 9:39 pm
Offline
Posts: 1508
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 10:42 am
You got that a bit of the message wrong.
APDAF wrote:
1) The empire is not world dominating where is the fun is that?
I meant the where is the fun of having a world dominating empire where you could end a country in minutes.
Raxar wrote:
5. Again, having an empire isn't the issue, it's the degree to which you are taking it. As it has been said, There Is No Way That There Could Ever Be Less Than Ten Individual Factions On Earth. Period. If you want something like that, I suggest that you go to NS.
How is there no way of having less than ten factions?
Because in the cold war there were two factions NATO and the Warsaw Pact.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Help with Britannian AUPosted: July 29th, 2012, 9:47 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 7510
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 12:25 pm
Location: the netherlands
APDAF wrote:
You got that a bit of the message wrong.
APDAF wrote:
1) The empire is not world dominating where is the fun is that?
I meant the where is the fun of having a world dominating empire where you could end a country in minutes.
Raxar wrote:
5. Again, having an empire isn't the issue, it's the degree to which you are taking it. As it has been said, There Is No Way That There Could Ever Be Less Than Ten Individual Factions On Earth. Period. If you want something like that, I suggest that you go to NS.
How is there no way of having less than ten factions?
Because in the cold war there were two factions NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
yeah, and really all nations of the world were in those 2 :roll:
the amount of neutrals in eurasia only was larger then the amount of 'sided' countries on that same continent. not even to speak about africa or south america.

in short, this is exactly the lack of research people are saying you have problems with.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 1 of 3  [ 29 posts ]  Return to “Beginners Only” | Go to page 1 2 3 »

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]