Finnish AU

Great ones Gollevainem,

You and the other always remeber me why i like

this forum ...

Lovely! Looking foward to see more. I'm in love with the old freighter!

As a natural (and well documented) mood swift, Im again moving away from this somewhat Arctic orientated Warsav Pact member to a more traditional Baltic orientated neutral Finland...
These things tend to come like tidewave....

I start the analogy this time with the "Republican fleet", or a fleet post 1918, since the former presents Kingdom and yadi yaa...
the timeline is typicall to my previous incarnations of this AU, except with little less into Russian influence this time...Stalin and the finnish social democrats didn't like each others that much. In this scennario, the enemy is again in the east, but the naval tradition comes...well from naval tradition itself that continues with the Kingdom way back from the "dark ages". As typical promise from me, Ill post the introduction once I manage to get the AU history part straigth... (and keep it straigth long enough to actually work with any sort of charts.)

Anyways, The content is still the same as usuall, the known and little bit invented "what if's" and never where's...strugeling again with the Destroyers. Im never going to get these final, so I wont even pretend otherways; here is just what my little fleet will look this time:

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The age of "modern" destroyers begun in Finnish royal fleet around early 1900's when the German yard Grupp-Germania was awarded to assist the Finnish yards in contract of total of eigth "torbedo-cruisers", which were destroyers in their purest sense (and before the WWI, thus reclassed as such in finnish paralance)
Thougth differing with details, each of the three subclasses followed same trends in armamant, machinery and dimensions.

The concept behind them was for the Finnish navy to poses strong torbedo arm rather than compete with Swedens and Russians to build battle ships (I tell more about this coastal defence ship race with Sweden with the armoured ships) and to use the favorable geography around the Finnish coast for rabid hit-and-run attacks from the archipegalo.

Along with older torbedo boats (also to be posted later) they presented the core of the fleet, that the few armoured ships just supported, against the swedish doctrines of strong fleets build around the coastal BBs.

Small budgets and consentration once more for the armoured ships prevented the fleet aquire any turbine powered destroyers prior to the WWI, and during the war (when the Kingdom of Finland fougth against the Russians and then the Republic against White-russian forces, germans and interventionists) the fleet was not able to aquire turbines intended for fast destroyer type of vessels, as there were no shipyards or machinery plants to produce turbines.

The class served trough the war with dignity, with only minimal losess and remained as the core of the fleet way beyond their obsolence, and beeing finaly replaced with more modern desings in the 30's. A planned conversion to patrol gun-boats did not materialise, but Vinha was build as prototype for such conversion and used mainly as training ship and a gunboat then during the WWII, serving on Lake Onega (Ääninen) and Lake Ladoga (Laatokka)

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Despite Finnish occasionally clashing with the British during the 1918-1919 period, the Republic soon made efforts to gain good relationship with the victorious nations of the WWI. The first naval acqustions went for Brittany for sale of two obsolete L-class destroyers. Thougth in size they were only little improvement to the old triple-expansion destroyers, they very huge leap in machinery and in weaponry, introducing twin torbedo tubes and three guns instead of two.

More important acqustion from the RN came when the government managed to buy the two sunken W-class vessels to be salvaged and commisioned to the fleet. These powerfull destroyers were strongest of their kind in the world at the time, and after rehaul and some reworkings on the bridges, they both were commisioned around the same time as the two "little brothers" of the L-class. The four destroyers formed a single flotilla all way up to the WWII, where Vakava sunk while harrasing the Soviet's Tallin evacuation by a mine or a unspecified submarine torbedo, and when Vinha sunk after multitude of air attacks in the Gulf of Viborg during the fierce battles of 1944.

Both surviors where disposed in the early 50's as completely worn out and over aged.

The first new construction in torbedo arm came from Italy, after the Navy finaly managed to get on going after the decline of the 20's. Italian yards won the contracts for two classes of torbedo boats (or coastal-destroyers as called in Finland), with orginal plan of 8 small boats that were sisters to similar vessels build for Thailand by the Italians and for four larger vessels of the famous Spica's. The latter was also to been build in Finnish yards, while Italian yards provided the smaller ones (as well as MTB's and licence for modern units of such type)

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The Jymy's and Hurja's gave the fleet new core of small torbedo boats that could function around the concepts that were allready created before the WWII, and supported by the surviving Armoured ships, extensive minefields they would operate in two squardon's led by the British build destroyers as squardon leaders. The class served well trough the WWII, albeit having poor AA fit that was source of constant upgrading (in expense of the 76mm main guns, some of the units later had all 40mm and 20mm gun armamant). Two vessels were sunk, both by Soviet aircrafts. The surviors where rebuild post war into 2nd class ASW escort ships.

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The Spica's where intended to operate more GP functions, as screens for the coastal BBs, or as escorts and in limited blue water operations, thus they were always concentrated on seperate flotillas outside the main torbedo arm. The orginal ammount of four ships were later increased to six due the looming world war, where they proved out to be one of the most effective units of the entire fleet. Tarmo and Tuuli were both sunk during the 1944 battles, but Tuuli was later refloated and repaired, but deemed unfitted for the larger post war modernisation and scrapped in the mid 1955s.

After the reconstruction, the units served as ASW and GP patrol gun-boats and where finaly replaced by the Turunmaa class fast gun-boats/corvettes in the late 60's.

Finally, the Destroyer saga in finnish navy concluded and ended itself into the most powerfull units of their type to be build in Finnish yards.
The WWII had proved out that torbedo attacks made by larger vessels, equiped for other task as well, where not effective in terms of the risk of loosing such vessels that were not "expendable" to a small fleet like such were for larger ones.

Despite good service as gunboats and anti-small FAC vessels, none of the fleet's torbedo boats or destroyers scored any hits or kills against the Soviet Navy's figthing units. (they sink some transports during the evacuations of Hanko and Tallinn during 1941, but never managed to engage the Few soviet destroyers or Cruisers with torbedoes.) All combat "scores" for torbedoes came from small MTBs that proved their value greatly during the war.
Only during the breakdown with German in late 1944, and when the Kriegsmarine larger units were boasting and showing muscles around Finnish coast during the german evacuations, did the torbedo flotilla move into attack positions against Prizn Eugen and Admirall Hipper, but diplomatic outcome prevented this standoff.

Another factor that the navy found out was that the small vessels were desperatly outgunned for other purposes than direct fleet torbedo assaults. Therefore its not suprising that the postwar naval re equipment program called for larger "world class" destroyers compareble in gun power against Soviet and Swedish destroyers and having true DP armament. Torbedoes were retained in reduced form.

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The "Destroyer 49" class was an enlargement of the orginal italian Spica class, armed with Tampella produced 120/45mm DP guns (that were no general success)
and new high angle Fire controll. In overall, despite being advanced in Finnish terms, they were rather obsolete against the new Swedish and Soviet destroyers, but still gave good service way up to mid 80's. During their life they were first modernised with FCRs and better AA guns, and had complete rebuilding of their ordanance during the early 70's when they embarked automatic 120mm guns, radar controlled AA, and had helicopter landing platform for supporting small craft operation as command ships.

YEAR GREAT!!!!

Finland gogogogo

As alwayas Gollevainen you work are truly wonderful. I'm intensely motivated by your designs.

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Nobody expects the Imperial Inquisition!

Just a first ray of something that happens when you manage to reason out need of aircraft carriers for Finns too! (albeit, before you can fly, you have to sail with deep draugth and with 12 inch main armament

)

The turrets are SKoda build (Darthpand drawn), and I tempted myself to test his color scheme from the Viribus Unitis wich naturally is the main inspiration of this vessel (its basicly Erzas Monarch rescaled to the more modest dimensions of their forerunners.)

I'll get back to the details with the rebuild version out of this.

Awesome!! It looks like Austrian based, can we expect a cooperation betwin Austria and Finland?

The class is actually German designed albeit the guns were ordered from Skoda (and eventually build in license in Tampere)
In 1910 naval program, the Royal Finnish navy went even more grandiose plans than before, to counter the German's and suprass the Swedish navies with four dreadnougths to be build in Finnish yards. Altougth all four were laid down, only three were completed, the Väinämöinen first felt all work suspended due the great war and later civil war, where the hull was badly damaged by sabotage. The post war Democratic republic had no funds to complete or even repair the hull, so it was scrapped.

Im also working on simming these ships, but I have to get Springsharp work with vista first...

All three served in distingtively, usually, one in full complement, one as training vessel and one laid up to preserve their service age.
In thirties they were all rebuild with Italian assistance, in similar lines with the RM Andrea Doria and Cai Dulio classes. They featured twin DP 120mm mounts as secondaries, new bridge structures and all funnels trunked into one.
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