Shipbucket

new one looks ok.... but still there are some points I don't like. those are:
the black line at the bottom of the rectangular plate
the circle and plate still slightly too big.
just saw that the bottom must be 2-3 pixels less broad
but I think we are coming close to the perfect one now..........

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

This drawing sure comes around with struggle.

Not to involve myself taking side's here, I think my orginal moderation (in somewhere page one or two) still stands.

Few extra points thougth:
There are no shipbucket standard doors. Like someone said, only thing "standard" is the shading, coloring, scaling and few basic details like windovs and railings.
The doors in the equipment chart are good reference for most common shape of ship doors, but naturally their shape vary between all the shipbuilders trough time and space.
One of what I would consider standard however are the propellors, and in here (and I dont even dear to venture backwards in the arguments on who's version they came) they...look like they are copypasted directly from some akwarell in jpeg. form. No offense. But get back to the ones in the chart at least in terms of color and shape. Shipbucket style is sometime crude toward small details, and sometimes its not worth of going to do teeny-tiny detailing over something that doesen't look like the bucket anymore.

of the confontration:
It takes two to tango, and the one who is more capaple of better selfcontroll unfortuanetly usually leads it.
I hope we don't see similar drama in future.

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

as mitch is banned ( he made it originally) , I will recolour the screw according to sb standard, so I can add an good one to the NL sheet. the shape is better kept this way, because it covers the real one rather good. btw, is there a good sheet with screws, because the ones on the equipment sheet aren't enough to cover all possible designs....

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Mitch has been asking for it for far too long. As usual, I feel remorse about banning him (because I am intrinsically a sucker and I usually let people off the hook). I am considering reducing his ban to a week if he promises to be nice and behave himself, though I know that I'll just end up banning him again somewhere in the future...

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USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

migth be best call...

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

My opinion on this is tainted by this bout of bullshit, but I'm for keeping him the hell away. He's got an ego a mile wide, and a VERY overdeveloped sense of his own capabilities.

I mean, look at this thread. He wants to do a new LCF, and can't get in contact with me, because at that moment I'm not here yet. Fine. He wants to use his own drawing, rather than modify mine. Fine? Maybe.
But let's assume that the best he comes up with is the stuff currently on page one. It's riddled with errors, which I documented a few pages ago. Now, most here would have simply accepted this: it LOOKS nice, until you take the time to look up some hi res pics. But hey, he works for the RN, and sees these ships every day. Who would have taken the time to look stuff up and comment?
And why all the problems? Because he's so convinced of his own superiority that he discarded my drawing because it was slightly too long while it, in fact, got all major details right. He didn't even bother referencing it. Worse, he didn't bother googling references either. He would have caught all of his own mistakes if he did. The same thing with the M-frigate. The outline I did for that was perfect, but Mitch just had to fuck around with that too. but hey, he's RN, he sees these ships every day, right? Wrong. He still manages to screw up things like the raised Goalkeeper location on the hangar roof, which WAS in the original drawing.
Mitch relies too much on his own eyes and memory, and too little on reference pictures. He's utterly convinced of his own right, and doesn't take corrections well. He's abrasive, and fuck it, he butchers the English language like it's a pig's carcass hanging from a steel hook.

I mean, I'm not blameless in this whole mess. I've ALSO got an ego. Heck, the LCF is one of the first real Shipbucket drawings I did. It's not the most detailed one. But yeah, I'm pissed if somebody starts anew. But I'd have been a lot less pissed and abrasive if the effort had in fact been a good one. But it wasn't.
At least we'll end up with a major overhaul of the LCF in this thread, plus some extra details like the updated cannon, so some good comes out of it. But hell, I could have done without Mitch and his holyer than thou attitude. Give me people like acelanceloet or Darthpanda to work with any day...

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Would you please not eat my gun...

He has caused so many problems in the past, I'm not quite sure why I'm always so hesitant to ban him.

Even his one-day absence has been nice. Hopefully his week-long vacation makes him think.

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USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

Too much dutch in the board and too little dutch ships to be drawn
I am not that pleased when I have been reading this thread, as the confontration here has been first and worst of its kind in Shipbucket's history, and I frankly have seen little point in any of this. In the end we all must remmeber two things (wich I said allready in page one or two):

1) our drawings are just shipbucket renditions of ships. They cannot and never will be 100% accurate. The scale and the pixels will set limitations. We cannot get into exact length in pixel wise, there always will be the differencies. In here, I counted that MihoshiK's orginal was roughly 1 % over the length, 2 and half meters. I can confess that Even in my own work there are greater scaling errors from simple math issues and the unflexibility of Paint to scale beyond integer percentages.

2)What one can see as improvement, to another it just meaningless show-off in form of getting one's own credits in the drawing. I have many times raised fuss over the "evolution" of the shipbucket style and how it has gone onwards, but 99,9 % of those cases has dealt with the pre-45 vessels with sleak and round beutifull lines that the orginal style treated with horror. Ships like the LCF in its modern bulkiness however have been the birth of the shipbucket. They were the drawings that begun this whole show and basis for all drawings made after them to against they were compared. I recall myself taking deep looks at the MihoshiK's orginall drawing when I drew my type-51B...

So in the end, can we go and change the foundations of our entire style? Rewrite the all ideas to whom we base this whole thing?
While I was comparing the two drawings to get my point about the length, the only way I could seperate them two from each other was by looking on to the credits. I think we are pretty close here just changing something in sake of changing. The Bucket style is not so uniformall, that there is some one fundamental rigth way to draw something. There is always the artist liberty, each of us draws the same thing in bit different fashion.

If I would have to make the adm. call of what gets uploaded and you guys deliver two drawings, one made by Mitchell, another modified from the orginal by MihoshiK and Acelancelot and the result would be tears and brust hairs in the other camp, I would be tempted to simply reject both of them. The orginal one IMO still holds its ground, and I would still accept it without thinking twice. It's still a good drawing (despite the penny errors) and lot more worse crap has gotten past my sieve simply becouse I have not wanted to confontrate some big egoes.

In the end I still hope you can continue working together in this, and if its impossible, then avoid getting into crusades against each others.

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

How about this:



An APAR from a picture, scaled to the shipbucket scale:



As you can see, size and width of the panels is almost completely correct. The only problem is mine is a pixel too high, but if I don't I can't show the fact that the panel is slightly higher than it is wide.
I've changed almost all lines to a dark grey, rather than black, the tower casing has been reworked, and been made a pixel higher. It's the only way to give me the ability to show the slight rim there is on the roof of the tower. Unfortunately it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't cases, because the distance between the edge of the APAR face and the upper rim of the Tower is less than a pixel wide in our scale...

One thing I haven't done is make the whole thing 3 pixels less wide, as you hinted at: The picture shows it isn't needed, and just as bad, if I'd done that, it would have thrown off the proportions of the entire APAR tower, not just the upper part. It would have been a right bitch to redraw everything from the bridge up.

Finally, again provisionally, I present the LCF. The Props are now the right color, yellow and black, no shading, and the RHIB can now bee seen through the porthole in the siding. Underneath it, for contrast, the old LCF.





Frankly, I'm ready to throw the towel in, this is getting ridiculous. If everyone else visiting this thread concurs upon the ship and the APAR, I'll get ready to see if I can whip up the other three ships. There's some minor differences apart from ECM and Goalkeeper placement. But as far as the basic ship goes, I'm calling it quits.

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Would you please not eat my gun...

miho, the ship looks good, apart from:
some double black pixel lines in the screw
APAR too large..... I know it is an bitch to redraw that entire mast, but....... well, the entire APAR is just a bit overscaled (1/2 pixels to all sides) I would go for perfection, but I have to admit yours looks good.... but I will add mine to the dutch parts sheet (unless you can make some better detail of it in the size I have now, then that one will be added) because ships in the future can't have that same overscaled part. if you don't want to redraw the structure, I am ok with that. but it is not exactly right, and doesn't belong on the sheet because of that. ok?

what did I say 'the ship looks good..... IT LOOKS GREAT! mitch's one is just as good in case of drawing quality, but I think you have small details better then him. (and mostly some parts better looking ) just fix the parts above, and it will look great (I have an better prop already, if needed....

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin