Shipbucket

are u interested in building oversees or would rather build in Sieran

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Projects:
Zealandia AU
John Company AU
References and feedback is always welcome!

Well the nation would benefit greater from building their own vessels but until such a time as they have the experience required to build efficient designs, overseas construction or assistance is required.

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"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Alright been reviewing Sierans first dreadnought concepts again (I'm considering making the Anadyr design into a never-built design but not sure at this point). After reevaluating the earlier springsharps I posted I'm thinking that the Project A is the best. It's not fast nor does it have 'long legs' but as Sieran is having difficulty getting turbines to be reliable, they're remaining conservative and going for a traditional reciprocating engine design.

[code]Project A, Socialist Republic of Sieran Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
16,221 t light; 17,222 t standard; 18,500 t normal; 19,522 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(543.00 ft / 530.00 ft) x 81.50 ft x (25.50 / 26.65 ft)
(165.51 m / 161.54 m) x 24.84 m x (7.77 / 8.12 m)

Armament:
10 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
5 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.07lbs / 39.95kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
5 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.56lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,778 lbs / 4,435 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 206.00 ft / 62.79 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 324.00 ft / 98.76 m 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 26,613 ihp / 19,853 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,300 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
793 - 1,031

Cost:
£1.776 million / $7.104 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
- Guns: 1,753 tons, 9.5 %
Armour: 5,638 tons, 30.5 %
- Belts: 2,158 tons, 11.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 856 tons, 4.6 %
- Armament: 1,368 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,196 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 60 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,419 tons, 13.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,161 tons, 33.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,279 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.4 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,457 lbs / 9,733 Kg = 24.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 73 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.46

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.588 / 0.594
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.76 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 26.95 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 25.15 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarter deck: 25.14 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.7 %
Waterplane Area: 31,235 Square feet or 2,902 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 769 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.56
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily[/code]

The only decision I'm not sure about is whether to have the design with all centreline turrets (as this sim shows) or an older arrangement of having single forward, two wing and then two aft with one superfiring.
Another alternative would be to go for a hexagonal arrangement akin to the Nassaus with Twin turret foreward, single mounts in wing mounts on the corners of the superstructure and then another twin turret aft. This layout seems closer to the only big gun ship that Sieran would have at the time (the Admiral Ushakov).

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

You could have two wing turrets that are stagered, like the Von der Tann and Espana, so that you still can fire all in a broadside.
But you should(IMO)take the one that is most natural, for the sake of realism.

Staggered turrets could work but the only problem there is that it would likely require a longer hull and greater displacement in order to accommodate it. These designs are already as bit as the available shipyards can accommodate so I'm trying to keep the design as compact as possible.

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"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Alright as I couldn't find the original springsharp report I had to first recreate it and then modify it into the version with two wing mounted gun and a single superfiring gun turret aft. Interesting how for the same speed and firepower it has considerably greater range as well as better survivability. It is also however of a slightly greater standard and max displacement as well as requiring a slightly larger crew and being a fraction more expensive.

[code]
Project A-2, Socialist Republic of Sieran Dreadnought laid down 1908

Displacement:
16,217 t light; 17,245 t standard; 19,814 t normal; 21,869 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(546.00 ft / 543.00 ft) x 81.50 ft x (26.65 / 28.90 ft)
(166.42 m / 165.51 m) x 24.84 m x (8.12 / 8.81 m)

Armament:
10 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.07lbs / 39.95kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
5 - 1.46" / 37.1 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1.57lbs / 0.71kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
5 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,778 lbs / 4,435 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 315.00 ft / 96.01 m 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 228.00 ft / 69.49 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 315.00 ft / 96.01 m 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
3.00" / 76 mm 315.00 ft / 96.01 m 24.99 ft / 7.62 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 2.50" / 64 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 27,500 ihp / 20,515 Kw = 21.01 kts
Range 14,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,624 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
834 - 1,085

Cost:
£1.787 million / $7.149 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,753 tons, 8.8 %
- Guns: 1,753 tons, 8.8 %
Armour: 5,595 tons, 28.2 %
- Belts: 2,138 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 874 tons, 4.4 %
- Armament: 1,294 tons, 6.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,225 tons, 6.2 %
- Conning Tower: 63 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,500 tons, 12.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,120 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,596 tons, 18.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 1.3 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 100 tons
- Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,381 lbs / 11,059 Kg = 28.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 14.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.52

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.588 / 0.599
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.66 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22.76 %, 19.00 ft / 5.79 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 26.95 %, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Aft deck: 25.15 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarter deck: 25.14 %, 16.50 ft / 5.03 m, 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4 %
Waterplane Area: 32,006 Square feet or 2,973 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 738 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[/code]

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Well it's been a long while since I was last active here due to finals for the semester at university but with those complete I can now get back to working further upon this AU.

Lately I've been concentrating more on the air forces equipment and how it will relate to what the navy's role is and what it operates. Whilst I have previously drawn some of the aircraft, Im currently looking for a compact lightweight fighter cheaper to build than the previously posted design. A decrease in performance is acceptable considering manufacturing time and cost take priority (with an increasingly belligerent Japan just a few hundred nm away.

At the moment I've been looking at something around about the Reggaine Re.2000 / Re.20001. Sieran is a weak engine manufacturer as of yet by 1939 unable to produce an engine of greater than 1000hp. As a result of this a diverse mix of inline and radial engines has been fitted to all designs in an attempt to discover a solution to the power problem.

Another factor for this design is for ship borne use. These fighters will be the base design for the first dedicated fighter monoplanes to be used from the nations future carrier (and it's current training carrier). Here the compact size is again vital and performance targets are based around the rumored figures for mitsubishis A5M 'Claude' naval fighter.

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In the shipbuilding front I've been working on another design of small coastal merchant that can also be taken over by the navy for patrol duties (built with strengthened bows for the fitting of the standard multi-service 3in gun).

I have also been working on a new design of submarine larger again than the previous one posted. It is increasingly becoming clear in Naval Hall that the surface fleet can never hope to truly pose a significant threat to the Imperial Japanese Navy but the submarine fleet on the other hand is becoming viewed as the most effective means of achieving the nations defense strategies.

Sorry for the long post.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Sounds interesting. Looking forward to see the results.

I personally am not a big fan of the Re.2000 but they work fine
however if Japan is your biggest threat why would you buy fighters from them unless I misread somewhere

_________________
Projects:
Zealandia AU
John Company AU
References and feedback is always welcome!

The A5M is the aircraft that Sieran wants to be able to equal or better with either it's own or imported equipment. The frontline land based fighter at the time is a fighting biplane and the navy has no dedicated fighters,money the multi role bomber/heavy fighter that I posted a few pages back.

I'm also working on a passenger liner used to connect Sieran with its allies as well as Canada and the US. It is only a smaller vessel more like a ferry than a liner but it does it's job at a time when funds are limited.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"