"The Best Naval Guns Ever Made": The Queen Elizabeth-Class

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The mentioning of Adm. Woodward, in fact, strengthens that viewpoint, if one considers the losses the British Expeditionary Force actually suffered: 2 Type42s, 2Type 21s and half a dozen other vessels damaged. The Argentinians lost one obsolete cruiser and two subs. It is true that, due to a faulty tactical thinking on the part of Vice Admiral Jorge Anaya, the fleet was kept in port fir the reminder of the conflict, but the losses sustained by the RN were reaching a breaking point. I have, in fact, no sure answer what might have happened had the principal British commanders at Jutland exercised more caution and less vigor in attacking, but I'm convinced the losses might have been reduced.

The point being? In fact, the British 'won' the conflict; it being reducable to easily defined goals (in sharp contrast to more recent engaments). No offence, but the last time I looked, the Falklands were still British

Barham was a gorgeous ship (and a key point in my dissertation... though sadly due to her loss rather than her actions.)

PB, I meant no offense to you or the RN. I was, myself, glued to the telly back in Sweden when the Falklands conflict took place and so rooted for the Brits. I still maintain my opinion, however, that Woodward could have allowed himself to stay farther out in the Exclusion Zone and not to expose his capital assets like he did. But it's also true that Maggie and First Sea Lord, Sir John Leach spurred him on, so he was only partially in control of the events. I like to emphasize for you and other Britons, regarding myself very much an honorary one, having lived in East Sussex for six month previously, that I do not, under any circ would've or will in the future endorse, encourage or recognize an Argentinian overlordship of the Falkland islands! - Unfortunately, today, the RN will probably not be able to repeat its 1982 feat...

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

bezobrazov wrote:

Unfortunately, today, the RN will probably not be able to repeat its 1982 feat...

I disagree with that almost entirely. Modern assets, such as the Ocean and the type 45, give us enough capability to retake the islands, I think, especially with the typhoons on station.
I have only anecdotal evidence on this, but a talk given to us by Commander Simon Staley (who recently took HMS York to Libya) has the type 45 having systems reduced from maximum capabilities in order to give US air forces a fair fight in training operations. An amusing idea...

I wasn't in fact aware of that. I hope you're right, though, although I wonder if the political will might be there - even with the present LibCon government! Just remember what Liam Fox has done with the UK defense forces...

I would hate to know that Ocean was one of only flight decks that my nation had.
Every day I wish that your Parliament would step up construction of the Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales so that Her Majesty's Navy might once again have ships commensurate with its importance on the world stage.

Oops, we're going off-topic a bit, but no worries Bezo, I wasn't implying anything detrimental to your good self. I'm home now and can actually see my drawings again, so, 'nose to the grindstone'

Instead of updating the posted drawings on p. 1, I've elected to post the entire 5th BS as it appeared and fought at Jutland, May 31-June 1, 1916.

I've basically redrawn about 50% or so of the ships; new underwater hull, new 15" gun turrets, new funnels, and a new superstructure, which also has been realigned. Compared to Hood's original, it is practically a new ship. Still, there are a lot of Hood's original left, therefore I leave the credits as they are.

The 5th Battle Squadron was formed in Nov. 1915, and originally consisted of all five units; the last two, Malaya and Queen Elizabeth not joining till April and May, 1916.
Queen Elizabeth herself, missed the Battle of Jutland and was not always considered a 'true' member of the squadron; in Jan. 1917 she was removed and made the fleet flagship of the Grand Fleet, under Adm. Sir David Beatty.

The Battle of Jutland proved the class' finest hour altogether; HMS Barham firing some 337 15" shells, the most any battleship fired. She was severely damaged, but didn't lose one ounce of her fighting capability. HMS Malaya came very close to destruction, when a shell detonated in close proximity of her starboard 6"-battery, causing a major cordite fire and 102 casualties. She fired 215 shells in return against the German 1 Scouting Group and the 3rd Battle Squadron's Fifth Division (König-class battleships) One witness describing the battlewagon at that battle said she looked like "an enraged P&O"; a reference to hers flying the 15 ft large silk woven battle ensign of the Federated Malay States, and its similarity with the house flag of the Peninsular&Orient Line (P&O).
HMS Warspite, under the redoubtable Capt
Phillpotts, had her moment of glory at the "Windy Corner" some time after 6 pm on May 31st, when her steering gear jammed and she began to turn in a circle. This was when the 5th BS was about to deploy ahead of the approaching Grand Fleet; Rear Adm. Evan-Thomas anticipating, erroneously - a deployment to starboard, instead of the port deployment that happened. Warspite drew the fire of most of the onrushing High Seas Fleet, being severely mauled, but never losing her fighting ability. At times she was as close as 12,000 yards from the enemy! She fired 259 rounds of 15". HMS Valiant, in stark contrast to her sisters, suffered only superficial splinter damage, but did fire 288 15" rounds. All through the battle, the accuracy and deadly impact of the gunnery of the 5th BS was reported. The squadron had the highest overall score among battleship squadrons - far above the meagre results obtained by Beatty's much vaunted Battle Cruiser Fleet!

So here is the world's most famous single battle squadron - The 5th Battle Squadron of the Grand Fleet:

HMS Barham; Flag: Rear Admiral The Hon. Sir Hugh Evan-Thomas; Capt. Arthur W. Craig
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HMS Valiant; Capt. Maurice Woollcombe
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HMS Warspite; Capt. Edward M. Phillpotts
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HMS Malaya; Capt. The Honorable Algernon D. E. H. Boyle
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I will later post the Queen Elizabeth as of Dardanelles, 1915; the Barham as built, and we'll see...

Beautiful work Bezobrazov!

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Work list(Current)
Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)
There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

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