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Gunship
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 3:00 pm
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Interrogativ if the next aré the CLAA ?????


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 3:26 pm
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Norman Friedman, [u]Naval Radars[/u] wrote:
A serious problem in early microwave systems was waveguide losses, which limited the practical distance between antenna and radar generative / display. That is why early US installations of the microwave surface search set (SG) placed the antenna near the bridge, even when such placement severely limited the arc the radar could cover. There was no such problem with the coaxials of metric radars; many battleships and at least one cruiser showed, in 1942-43, big metric air search sets on the mainmast and a diminutive SG forward near the primary conning position. The solution to the waveguide problem shows in the widespread revision of this arrangement in 1944: SGs were moved aloft to topmasts to clear arcs for the big SK air search sets.


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 3:38 pm
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I know about the waveguide problem -- it's interesting, though, as the Friedman's illustration of Cleveland as built clearly shows an SG set on the foremast.

Unfortunately, since the only photos of the ship in its early configuration are typically blurry and undersize, it's difficult to confirm: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/055/04055.htm

[ img ]
This is in late 42 (later than the Cleveland in the drawing, note the removal of the boats/crane and additional light AA); it appears that the mainmast radar is still the SC set, and it REALLY looks to me like an SG on the foremast.

Thoughts? I'm stumped.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 3:52 pm
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Further questions:
Quote:
A very attractive design. Re the open bridge replacing this closed type, I'd be interested to know why the change, as it appears to go against the trend. The RN prefered open bridges for better overhead spotting of attacking aircraft (Stuka's in particular), and of course, to keep the chaps alert on watch (didn't work, closed was better in that respect).
The USN found out during the war that the enclosed bridge made things difficult during air action -- hence the open bridge on nearly all wartime USN designs and late-war refits. Post-war the bridges were enclosed again now that the imminent threat was gone.
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Interrogativ if the next aré the CLAA ?????
I'm not sure, I still have the late-war refits of this class to finish as well as some other projects I'd like to complete. It all comes down to whether or not I have the time to do it. Redhorse has drawn the Atlanta in its early war configuration but the drawing is old and could use a revamp.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Colosseum wrote:
I know about the waveguide problem -- it's interesting, though, as the Friedman's illustration of Cleveland as built clearly shows an SG set on the foremast.

Unfortunately, since the only photos of the ship in its early configuration are typically blurry and undersize, it's difficult to confirm: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/055/04055.htm

This is in late 42 (later than the Cleveland in the drawing, note the removal of the boats/crane and additional light AA); it appears that the mainmast radar is still the SC set, and it REALLY looks to me like an SG on the foremast.

Thoughts? I'm stumped.
Me too. If Navsource can't help, the best I can think of is email the fine folks at cl55.org.

Do note that the main battery FCR should be the Mark 3, not the Mark 8 you've got.


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 10:39 pm
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Friedman's drawing shows the Mk.8, but this picture is definitive:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/do ... d=3428&t=1

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 9th, 2012, 10:41 pm
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Yes. Note further (from a most interesting thread!) that neither of the after 6/47 turrets should have rangefinders.

Also, we're getting REALLY silly now with regards to what constitutes 'evidence', but I find the very wide blind/blanked spot on this display instructive. history.navy.mil explicitly calls it a SG scope. Of course, it's not quite the same ship....

[ img ]


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 10th, 2012, 12:37 am
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Heh, like all early-war ships, they seemed more concerned with getting them ready to fight rather than taking nice, detailed photos for all of us to use. :P

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Novice
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 10th, 2012, 6:25 am
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erik_t wrote:
Yes. Note further (from a most interesting thread!) that neither of the after 6/47 turrets should have rangefinders.
I beg your difference. Clearly this photograph shows the range finders on both superimposed turrets?
[ img ]

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CL-55 ClevelandPosted: February 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm
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Oops. You're right. I had been reading 'turret 4 never, ever had a rangefinder' and forgot we're talking about Clevelands, not Brooklyns. Derp.


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