John Company - From India to the world - Page 6

Big range (though I'm hardly surprised)...

How long do you think I could feasibly operate sailing ships like the cutty sark? I mean, they're pretty speedy, but do they lack cargo space or some such? What's going to push me into engined cargo ships, and when?

The SS Uganda is gorgeous... is there a chance of sizing her up and using a very similar but larger design as something of an intermediary? (i mean i'll draw it, obviously)..

barnest2 wrote:

How long do you think I could feasibly operate sailing ships like the cutty sark? I mean, they're pretty speedy, but do they lack cargo space or some such? What's going to push me into engined cargo ships, and when?

Cutty Sark remained active in the tea and later the wool trade until 1895 so you could probably run clippers until then, though you're going to see a major reduction in fleet size in the early 1870ies after the Suez Canal opens. You could conceivably run them for longer (Cutty Sark remained active as a trader until 1922) but I doubt it. However, you could see a revival of your sailing flleet in the 1880-90ies if you go into the South American nitrate and coal trade. This time however you're looking at four or five masted iron and steel barques and later six or even seven masted schooners like the Thomas W. Lawson
The thing that killed the sailing ships was the improved reliability of the steam engine, and later the introduction of the diesel engine. As the engines got more and more reliable and more and more efficient sailing ships ended up being outsailed.
The only thing they could compete on was range, since they didn't needed to refuel, and as efficiency increased the profitable routes became longer and longer. That's why the nitrate trade remained profitable all the way up to WWII.
That being said, sailing ships, usually fitted with an auxiliary diesel engine, did remain profitable on the European coaster market until the 1980ies, but that's of little interest to you.

barnest2 wrote:

The SS Uganda is gorgeous... is there a chance of sizing her up and using a very similar but larger design as something of an intermediary? (i mean i'll draw it, obviously)..

Probably. She's from the late 1870ies IIRC. Heuhen drew a couple of somewhat larger ships from the 1880ies if you're interested.
For the interwar period you should seriously consider something like the Selandia, since she was built specifically for the East India trade.

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barnest2 wrote:

SO... If I look at sailing ships until say 1890-1900, with a slowly increasing number of steam and then diesel driven from the 1870's maybe? A few kept on the nitrate trade to south america until the inter-war period...
Essentially the companies way of dealing with the coming of steam was to... ignore it, at least until it became very much more efficient in the late 19th century.[/URL]
Not quite. The majority of your trading fleet anno 1850 is probably going to be pure sailing ships, but you'll want a fair amount of ships with at least auxiliary steam propulsion and quite possibly a few full-power ships like the Great Eastern. These are going to carry high value cargoes, mail and passengers. These are going to be your flag ships and you'll need them for three reasons.
1) People are willing to pay an arm and a leg to cross the Atlantic or go to the Far East faster and more reliably
2) Image, or more correctly, Fashion. A large part of your income is going to come from first and second class passengers. At the time it was fashionable to travel with steamers and give how important fashion was to the upper crust of British society you'll need to be seen as fashionable if you want to earn money from them.
3) Efficiency. By moving your first and second class passengers over to the steam ships you'll be able to fit more cargo or more third class passengers on your sailing ships.

barnest2 wrote:

As for armed cargo ships... do we think modified warship designs? slower, and with only minimal armament, and lumps of the hull changed to cargo space?

That's a possibility, but I think it's more likely that you'll go the other way. A large part of your fleet is going to be simple merchant ships with six inch and two/four pounder guns fitted where there's space. They're probably going to be built with them from the start, but that's about it. These will be able to ward off torpedo boats, the occasional gunboat and all the pirates in the world.
For more serious threats you could built auxiliary cruisers like the US and Spain used during the Spanish-American war, but unlike those you can design yours from the keel up. That means you can incorporate light armour, proper magazines, proper gun positions, bigger engines and directors when they're invented. It's not going to be as effective as a proper warship, but if you do it right you could probably end up with a unit capable of taking on a light cruiser. So long as it's not a US 10.000 ton "light" cruiser.
That being said, there has been cases where warships were converted to cargo ship, but once you get past the age of sail they become rarer and rarer and less and less successful.

Okay so...

1850:
-Mostly sailing cargo vessels. Minor armaments
-A small number of steam powered vessels. Minor armaments
-A number of warships for trade protection.

1880:
-Cutting down on sailing ships. An increasing number of either pure steamers or sailers with aux engines.
-Increasing numbers of warships. Auxilliary cruisers built from the ground up.

1900:
-Mostly steam traders now.
-Auxilliary cruisers are much more prevalent than warships, but there are still a number of light pure war vessels.

1920:
-Post war the merchant fleet is depleted, heavily, but beginning massive building programs to rebuild.
-Large pure warship collection, thanks to wartime programmes.

1940:
-The merchant section is booming, even with the heavily armed aux cruisers operating.
-Warships are mostly outdated, post-ww1 builds. Some more modern ones, but the defence fleet is severely lacking.

Does that make more sense as a time-line of the period?

Yes, though it depends on how many steam vessels you have. Preferably you'll have enough to operate a reliable packet service from various points in the empire. Because to me that's going to be the key to make this setting work. The way I see it in order to remain relevant GTC will have to become the main means of communication between the far-flung possessions of the Empire. That means mail and passengers and later telegraph and wireless stations and float planes.

Is this dead barnest2?

Nope. I've just not got the time for drawing right now, so its going particuarly slowly. I think my first job is a set of fast packets from across the ages. A sailing clipper, a steam ship and then a more modern fast packet.... and maybe a wartime one...
Why?

Grr. I want to be writing and drawing for this... But I've just had a baby... This is going to take longer than I expected...

Congratulations! Though I do hope it's the lady who've had the baby

Shipbucket

John Company - From India to the world

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