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Dilandu
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 6:59 pm
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I can't really, I mean, I can't...sob....I've lost the will to live
Colleague, calm down. You know perfectly well that I love crazy designs. :D What to do - in my heart I esthetist, and often prefer the beauty to ​​functionality!

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Dilandu
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:02 pm
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1.) There is no way a hull that small is going to handle aircraft aside from VTOLs (ideally helicopters)
This is STOVL - Short take-off, vertical landing.
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2.) SA-2 was a very large missile with many of the same problems that you're going to encounter with BOMARC (not quite as bad, but it's a very large missile no less). Plus, given all that, it just wasn't a very good missile.
O, i knew it very well. But... It look soviet, and it look great!

Ok, i could possibly replace her by "Goblet"... He isn't so cool, but as functional...

P.S. Normal air "wing" - 2 MIG, and 2 helicopters.

Anti-air wing complectation - 3 MIG

Anti-submarine wing complectation - 4 helicopters

The main purpose of MIG - to defend the convoy from the possible attack of "Harpoon"-carrying patrol aircraft like "Orion" or B-52G (naval version) or small groups of fighters.

This ship wasn't designet to defend against heavy aerial attack. Only from small!

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:06 pm
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Dilandu wrote:
This is STOVL - Short take-off, vertical landing.
There's a difference between STOVL and VTOL. Carthaginian already covered some just from the physical aspects of the aircraft. A hull this small would be tricky even for short take-offs, especially if you want to carry more than just a few minutes of fuel. The MiG-23 is a very large aircraft; the Soviets abandoned trials of the smaller Yak-38 on the larger Moskva and built a more powerful VTOL and a much larger, flush-deck cruiser (and then scrapped that and built a conventional carrier anyway).
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O, i knew it very well. But... It look soviet, and it look great!

Ok, i could possibly replace her by "Goblet"... He isn't so cool, but as functional...
The main problem is, once again, physical space available. That's the #1 issue with most stupid designs.
Dilandu wrote:
The main purpose of MIG - to defend the convoy from the possible attack of "Harpoon"-carrying patrol aircraft like "Orion" or B-52G (naval version) or small groups of fighters.

This ship wasn't designet to defend against heavy aerial attack. Only from small!
Then why have S75 and MiG-23s?


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Carthaginian
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:13 pm
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Dilandu wrote:
The main purpose of MIG - to defend the convoy from the possible attack of "Harpoon"-carrying patrol aircraft like "Orion" or B-52G (naval version) or small groups of fighters.
Either your SAM/CIWS combo can defend against this problem... OR you have selected the wrong fit for those systems and need to completely rethink the ship! If you need coverage for an Outer Air Battle, then you bring an aircraft carrier and that is that. If you are trying to provide local anti-air defense, then you invest in a good medium/short range SAM fit and a good CIWS.

Trying to accomplish both on the same hull simply ends in a very expensive failure.


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Dilandu
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:14 pm
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A hull this small would be tricky even for short take-offs, especially if you want to carry more than just a few minutes of fuel.
Hey, MIG-25PD actually fly and could be on speed about 20 minutes.
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Then why have S75 and MiG-23s?
Could you suggest something best?

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Dilandu
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:16 pm
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Either your SAM/CIWS combo can defend against this problem...
Well, modernized B-52G could launch a 12 AGM-84 "Harpoon". How could you - with something less advanced than AEGIS and Mk-41 - could defense the convoy from this?

I always prefer to bring down the missile carrier - and this function for B-52 or "Orion" could be made by VTOL or STOVL

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Carthaginian
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:24 pm
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Dilandu wrote:
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Either your SAM/CIWS combo can defend against this problem...
Well, modernized B-52G could launch a 12 AGM-84 "Harpoon". How could you - with something less advanced than AEGIS and Mk-41 - could defense the convoy from this?

I always prefer to bring down the missile carrier - and this function for B-52 or "Orion" could be made by VTOL or STOVL
If you want to defend against the Outer Air Battle, then- as I am trying to point out- you bring a real aircraft carrier... period. There is no other way to do this, as any other weapon system will fall short of the goal. Frankly, those B-52's will have a fighter escort, and all your lone, puny little VTOL craft is going to do is say "Hey, get a reciprocal heading off me and follow it- THERE ARE SHIPS THERE!!!" He's going to get violated by an overpowering escort while providing absolutely no benefit to your convoy! A good SAM/CIWS can defend against the Harpoon with a good degree of success. This is precisely what they are designed for!

Next, your ship itself suffers a whole lot form that flight deck. Either you could 1.) install more weight of weapons, 2.) increase speed or 3.) shrink the ship and build more for better coverage. The flight deck for a single jet is a completely illogical, and frankly silly, waste of tonnage that could better be used for constructive construction. ;)


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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 7:25 pm
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Dilandu wrote:
Could you suggest something best?
One or the other. It's that simple.


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 16th, 2011, 8:19 pm
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off to the beginers forum

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Dilandu
Post subject: Re: "Red Alert"-class ocean escort leader, USSRPosted: December 17th, 2011, 3:41 am
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Frankly, those B-52's will have a fighter escort
Or yeah. In the middle of Atlantic.

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