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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 11th, 2011, 8:29 pm
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heuhen wrote:
The ship will drive on LNG.
:P

LNG is one of the most over-hyped fuels in the history of ever.


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 12:43 pm
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How so? I work with natural gas in my daily work and I can definetly say that natural gas is the best fuels there is. LNG is just great means to deliver it to places where the normal pipelining is impossible to build.

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 12:48 pm
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Maybe but LPG is a murderer of engine. And I'm talking about regular gasoline engine converted to LPG. I don't know if there is a special only LPG engine.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 2:24 pm
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lpg lng

you have converted engine and you have engine build for LNG.


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 2:28 pm
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Ahhh frak ... I mistake LNG with LPG :roll:

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 10:31 pm
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The most damning thing about LNG is that it's still a fossil fuel - and while it burns more cleanly than other fossil fuels there's still a finite supply of it, not to mention the resources necessary to find and extract it. I've also heard it's not as efficient at actually producing power than other fuels (with natural gas specifically since I've never heard of LNG being used directly as a fuel), so apparently you need bigger fuel tanks to get the same range.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 10:40 pm
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Yes. Here in Bergen, we have buses that run on LNG, and there it's either full throttle or nothing (stand still)! It is often that bus comes up behind them need to slow up to not drive into them. What I believe on is "Fuel Cell", we have an offshore supplay ship (the one that goes out to the oil platforms) that is built as a pure "Fuel cell" ship, which means it has no engines on board! only the electric one.


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 12th, 2011, 10:58 pm
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klagldsf wrote:
The most damning thing about LNG is that it's still a fossil fuel - and while it burns more cleanly than other fossil fuels there's still a finite supply of it, not to mention the resources necessary to find and extract it. I've also heard it's not as efficient at actually producing power than other fuels (with natural gas specifically since I've never heard of LNG being used directly as a fuel), so apparently you need bigger fuel tanks to get the same range.
I don't know about how it is in cars, but as a marine fuel it has a range of big advantages. Since it's a gas it's self atomizing so you can eliminate the majority of the fuel system from your engines (With a bit of work diesel cycle engines can run on pure LNG, or just about any other flammable material from coal slurry to peat dust) and unlike liquid fuels it'll always atomize properly across the engines whole range of revolutions. It contains no sulphur so there's no SOx emissions to deal with. It also burns at comparatively low temperatures which reduces the amount of NOx created. Last but certainly not least it's cheap enough to compete with HFO.
The problem with LNG is that its energy density is comparatively low which means you need to carry a lot more of it. However the amount of CO2 generated per kWh is about the same.
Storing LNG also presents a number of problems all on its own since it's a gas and needs to be stored either under pressure or cooled, or both.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: NORLINE cargo vesselPosted: November 13th, 2011, 11:05 am
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We use natural gas in over powerplant and in our heating plants at my work. I wouldn't change it to any other fuels out there. Sure natural gas is fosil fuel, but it's one of the lesser poluting ones of those. In the magnitute of 100 GWh which our district heating network produces energy yearly (and we are small town), there isen't really that much choises than to use fosil fuels. So why not using those which are actually cleaner than LFO or HFO or coal?

What is IMO the best feature of natural gas is the carefree and easy operation of it. Gas flows and burners runs smoothly. During my career we have had none breakdown in any of our plants due natural gas. It's clean to use as it causes no ash and the uniform quality of it makes it burn smoothly. Thus we have small heating plants, mostly old and in othervice rabidly needing overhauling (bloody company of ours doesen't give us enough resources to fix them :x, but thats another story) running unmanned automatically all the time. Having similar plants burning wood, peat or oil, you would have far more intense failure cycle and would tie up alot more manpower to operate them.

We use Siperian gas, which is unlike the european or american gases alot "cleaner" 98% methane. Despite general belives, the suply of the gas from siperia is quite carefree, there have been only one incidence where the flown of gas was temporarely cut down to Finland due some valveproplems in Russian side.

As for using natural gas or LNG to fuel motors, I've only experienced with using natural gas driven cars. We had one in my former job. It was like normal bensin driven gas but it had very small bensin tank and bigger gastank. The radius of the car was pretty much similar to normal bensin driven car but the proplem was that there weren't that much of petrolstations where you could fill it up with natural gas (we had our own system to fill it up taken directly from the gasline of our plants). Rule of thump is that one cubic meter of naturalgas equals the heatvalue of one litre of LFO.

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