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Navybrat85
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 25th, 2011, 1:44 pm
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Philbob wrote:
Navybrat85 wrote:
I read on Wikipedia that there was a consideration of adding APAR/Smart-L to the Halifax class? Perhaps the next ship will resemble that concept...
Its possible but that will lead to alot of problems later on, the Halifax design is about 20 years old now. hull form designs have changed and generators and engines are more effiecent now. Besides they would also have to spend tens of millions... (probably allot more) to intergrate the APAR and Smart-L and to redesign the superstructer for frequency deconfliction. A clean sheet or joining someone else's frigate program is probably the better option .
That makes sense. One feature I've always liked about Canadian ships, but I didn't see on these ones (might not have been looking too closely, though), is the rolled deck edge. That's for preventing ice build up, isn't it?

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 25th, 2011, 4:51 pm
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Navybrat85 wrote:
That makes sense. One feature I've always liked about Canadian ships, but I didn't see on these ones (might not have been looking too closely, though), is the rolled deck edge. That's for preventing ice build up, isn't it?
Actually that's a feature designed for nuclear blast protection (that's how worried the Canadians were about it). The Halifax (City) class frigates, designed after the Cold War, neglect this feature.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 27th, 2011, 7:24 pm
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In Modern Warship Design and Development, Friedman indicates that the rolled deck edge in RCN (later CF) service was specifically for reducing ice buildup. One wonders exactly what a slight curve would do to improve blast resistance - indeed, on Norfolk, "the rounded deck edge was considered particularly unfavorable [with regards to nuclear considerations] because the radioactive products... would roll down the sides of the ship and deposit on the sides".


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 27th, 2011, 8:06 pm
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It's certainly the reason why the Danish Thetis features it.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 27th, 2011, 8:24 pm
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IIRC, both the british leander class and the dutch GW, S, L and M frigates seem to have this kind of deck edge. none of these ships has seen much service in arctic conditions, so that makes me ask the question.... is it on those ships for nuclear blast protection? especially since the M frigates are of the same age as the halifaxes, it makes me wonder.....

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 27th, 2011, 9:28 pm
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No. Because a curved deck edge has nothing to do with nuclear blast protection.


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Paul Carl
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 27th, 2011, 9:48 pm
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From my experience it was a two fold.......
1st it made it harder for ice to form on the outside decks thus reducing extra weight 2nd it also allowed for a better flow of wash down from nuclear fallout. The ships were designed to be complete sealed and pressurized then washed down. Not sure how well that worked.


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Navybrat85
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 28th, 2011, 5:54 am
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acelanceloet wrote:
IIRC, both the british leander class and the dutch GW, S, L and M frigates seem to have this kind of deck edge. none of these ships has seen much service in arctic conditions, so that makes me ask the question.... is it on those ships for nuclear blast protection? especially since the M frigates are of the same age as the halifaxes, it makes me wonder.....
One needn't operate above the Arctic circle to experience Icing. it can be quite common on the Great Lakes from October to April, and at least the majority of the lakes are below the artic circle, although those are fresh water bodies, and fresh water reacts differently to cold than salt water.

The Sea cools alot slower than the air above it, though, and from what I've heard, it's not uncommon to have air temps in the 20's and water temps above freezing. However, when waves break over a ship, the spray produced doesn't hold it's temperature nearly as well as the sea itself does, and freezes rather quickly. prolonged exposure to freezing spray can cause ice build up. A neat experiment to prove this is, this winter, when it gets good and cold, take two pots of boiling water: Set one outside your door, and leave it, and measure how long it takes to freeze. After checking that, take another pot of boiling water, place it in a spray bottle, and spray the side of your house. The boiling water in the bottle should, if sprayed from a distance of at least two or three feet, generate a nice ice film over the siding of your house.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 28th, 2011, 6:27 am
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for me to remember what my stepfather told me about when they informed the Spanish engineers about ice and snow conditions in Norway, and to convince them we had to show them a picture of a motor torpedo boat with more than 2 meters of snow on the deck!
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you should have seen the facial expression of them! have never seen such big eyes!
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Navybrat85
Post subject: Re: New Canadian Navy ShipsPosted: October 28th, 2011, 7:34 am
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I deal with snow and ice all the time. Winter conditions are just a part of the reason why my job is continually ranked as one of America's top five most dangerous jobs. I guess that's why I have such a good understanding of the nature of winter.

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