1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate

Wow... this is harder than I thought- mission creep comes on with a vengeance in these little ships.
I intended to build something modest and simple; I wound up with something that almost qualifies as a 'colonial cruiser.' Even though Springsharp says all the 'crunchy bits' fit, finding room for sundry necessities is kinda difficult.

I'm still pleased enough with my version and think that it'll be acceptable- if cramped.

Carthaginian wrote:

atleast all your bits fit... ima have to make mine bigger to actualy get them all on the ship...

I think the largest patrol gunboat was the Erie class. So for this to work, no vessel is larger than the Erie class, anything larger will be considered a destroyer.

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nighthunter wrote:

I think the largest patrol gunboat was the Erie class. So for this to work, no vessel is larger than the Erie class, anything larger will be considered a destroyer.

That was basically it, Nighthunter- I went right up to the 2,000t std limit.
Now, the purpose of my ship is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike that of the Erie... this ship centers less on the anti-surface warfare role of the Erie and concentrates more on the emerging anti-air role of such a vessel (much like the vessels that ya'll have designed). I had hoped to include an aircraft, but the Erie herself shows how cramped things become if you go that route.

So, I'll be continuing to attempt to make my large escort/avisio version work, but I'm also working on something a bit more 'modest.'

Here's my humble attempt at it:
[ img ]

Updated with stats:

SpringSharp3b wrote:

IJN Seiuchi, Japan gunboat laid down 1936

Displacement:
800 t light; 864 t standard; 1,783 t normal; 2,519 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(295.25 ft / 291.00 ft) x 30.00 ft x (13.00 / 17.23 ft)
(89.99 m / 88.70 m) x 9.14 m x (3.96 / 5.25 m)

Armament:
3 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
6 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 163 lbs / 74 kg

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.50" / 38 mm -
2nd: - 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.25" / 6 mm
Forecastle: 0.25" / 6 mm Quarter deck: 0.25" / 6 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,010 shp / 4,483 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 17.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,655 tons

Complement:
136 - 178

Cost:
£0.315 million / $1.258 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 1.4 %
- Guns: 25 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 96 tons, 5.4 %
- Armament: 62 tons, 3.5 %
- Armour Deck: 28 tons, 1.6 %
- Conning Towers: 6 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 169 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 509 tons, 28.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 984 tons, 55.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,183 lbs / 2,805 Kg = 117.3 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.54
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 9.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 92 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.85

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.550 / 0.586
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 19.00 %, 20.00 ft / 6.10 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 34.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Quarter deck: 17.00 %, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m, 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 11.81 ft / 3.60 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 37.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.3 %
Waterplane Area: 6,093 Square feet or 566 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 349 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 46 lbs/sq ft or 226 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.14
- Overall: 1.02
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Adequate accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Here's the WIP on my smaller version.
As I said, it's centered more around being an anti-air and anti-submarine ship than a traditional 'gunboat.'
[ img ]

Any advice on what might not fit will be more than welcome.
The Springsharp for the ship follows:

Code: Select all

 laid down 1936

Displacement:
	1,610 t light; 1,800 t standard; 2,250 t normal; 2,610 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
	(320.00 ft / 300.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (12.00 / 13.51 ft)
	(97.54 m / 91.44 m) x 12.19 m  x (3.66 / 4.12 m)

Armament:
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 350 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
	  2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
		1 raised mount - superfiring
	  2 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
		1 raised mount aft - superfiring
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 3,000 per gun
	  Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
	  4 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
		4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 264 lbs / 120 kg
      Main DC/AS Mortars
      2 - 280.00 lbs / 127.01 kg Depth Charges + 40 reloads - 5.250 t total
	in Stern depth charge racks
      2nd DC/AS Mortars
      2 - 280.00 lbs / 127.01 kg Depth Charges + 40 reloads - 5.250 t total
	in Depth charge throwers

Armour:
   - Belts:		Width (max)	Length (avg)		Height (avg)
	Main:	2.00" / 51 mm	180.00 ft / 54.86 m	10.00 ft / 3.05 m
	Ends:	Unarmoured
	  Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:	Face (max)	Other gunhouse (avg)	Barbette/hoist (max)
	Main:	      -		      -			2.00" / 51 mm

   - Box over machinery & magazines:
	3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
	Diesel Internal combustion motors, 
	Geared drive, 2 shafts, 7,100 shp / 5,296 Kw = 20.00 kts
	Range 10,375nm at 14.00 kts
	Bunker at max displacement = 809 tons

Complement:
	163 - 212

Cost:
	£0.568 million / $2.272 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
	Armament: 83 tons, 3.7 %
	   - Guns: 69 tons, 3.1 %
	   - Weapons: 14 tons, 0.6 %
	Armour: 417 tons, 18.5 %
	   - Belts: 156 tons, 6.9 %
	   - Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
	   - Armour Deck: 248 tons, 11.0 %
	   - Conning Tower: 11 tons, 0.5 %
	Machinery: 199 tons, 8.9 %
	Hull, fittings & equipment: 841 tons, 37.4 %
	Fuel, ammunition & stores: 640 tons, 28.4 %
	Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 3.1 %
	   - Hull above water: 60 tons
	   - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
	Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
	  7,513 lbs / 3,408 Kg = 142.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
	Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.33
	Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
	Roll period: 11.6 seconds
	Steadiness	- As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
			- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
	Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
	Hull has a flush deck,
	  a normal bow and a cruiser stern
	Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.547 / 0.563
	Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
	'Natural speed' for length: 17.32 kts
	Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
	Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
	Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 24.45 degrees
	Stern overhang: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
	Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
				Fore end,	 Aft end
	   - Forecastle:	20.00 %,  22.00 ft / 6.71 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
	   - Forward deck:	30.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
	   - Aft deck:	30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
	   - Quarter deck:	20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
	   - Average freeboard:		17.49 ft / 5.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
	Space	- Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 48.6 %
		- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 168.3 %
	Waterplane Area: 8,350 Square feet or 776 Square metres
	Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 203 %
	Structure weight / hull surface area: 57 lbs/sq ft or 277 Kg/sq metre
	Hull strength (Relative):
		- Cross-sectional: 0.84
		- Longitudinal: 4.47
		- Overall: 1.00
	Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
	Excellent accommodation and workspace room
	Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
	Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Looking good though it's rather atypical for a British ship from the period.
As far as I'm aware all British inter war sloops had a raised fo'c'sle or foredeck.
The A and maybe the B mount would probably have been fitted with weather screens to protect the crew during bad weather.
I'm not entirely sure about the 2pdr mounts. The contemporary if somewhat smaller Bittern class were designed to mount four 4.7" and four .5" guns. I'm not sure the extra 500 tons are enough to allow you to mount four Octuple 2pdrs despite what SpringSharp says.
Also, all your guns are currently classed as breach loading guns.

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Worklist

Source Materiel is always welcome.

Thanks, Theil...

The breech loading thing is no big deal- it won't make any real difference in the SS- and I'll change it straightaway. The main mounts are DP, of course, and the 2-pounders are clearly anti-aircraft mounts.

I will admit that I looked toward simplicity when designing the ship; I figured that a flush-deck design would be easier to construct than one with a break. Also, the higher freeboard would contribute to an overall drier and more livable ship, and provide some extra living room for the crew. I looked toward the Adventure class minelayer, in specific, when designing the little ship. They had a nice, long, dry quarterdeck- this looked like it would lend itself nicely to easily working the anti-submarine weapons.

Well... I might do a version with a lowered quarterdeck, or one with a midbreak, but I'm going to finish this one (and my N-verse projects) before then.

I guess my single biggest question is this:
ARE THE DIRECTORS RIGHT?!?!

I've yet to put mouse to monitor as it were but here's my SS sheet for what I've put together so far.

Quote:

Sylenix Class, Lithentis Patrol Gunboat laid down 1935

Displacement:
1,700 t light; 1,743 t standard; 1,822 t normal; 1,886 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(338.70 ft / 328.08 ft) x 36.09 ft (Bulges 39.37 ft) x (14.11 / 14.42 ft)
(103.23 m / 100.00 m) x 11.00 m (Bulges 12.00 m) x (4.30 / 4.39 m)

Armament:
1 - 5.12" / 130 mm 45.0 cal gun - 67.61lbs / 30.67kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose gun in deck mounts, 1929 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 70.0 cal gun - 0.53lbs / 0.24kg shells, 300 per gun
Anti-air gun in deck mounts, 1935 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
1 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm 45.0 cal gun - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine gun in deck mounts, 1933 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 68 lbs / 31 kg
Main DC/AS Mortars
2 - 165.35 lbs / 75.00 kg Depth Charges + 20 reloads - 1.624 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 150.00 ft / 45.72 m 6.00 ft / 1.83 m
Ends: 10.0" / 254 mm 50.00 ft / 15.24 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
128.08 ft / 39.04 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 10.0" / 254 mm 50.00 ft / 15.24 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m
Main Belt covers 70 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5,558 ihp / 4,146 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 2,500nm at 11.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons

Complement:
139 - 181

Cost:
£0.503 million / $2.011 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 15 tons, 0.8 %
- Guns: 13 tons, 0.7 %
- Weapons: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 620 tons, 34.0 %
- Belts: 594 tons, 32.6 %
- Armament: 26 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 256 tons, 14.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 809 tons, 44.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 122 tons, 6.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,547 lbs / 2,516 Kg = 82.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.350 / 0.354
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 48.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.6 %
Waterplane Area: 7,235 Square feet or 672 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 156 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 250 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 4.73
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Thoughts?

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Blood and Fire

Lotsa armor for a ship that won't be hunting battleships any time soon!

Extremely short range, and very light armament.

I'd worry more about range and firepower than armor.
I know a ship's first purpose is to stay afloat- but it has to be able to do other things as well.

Shipbucket

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