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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 4:55 pm
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FlorΓ©als are just about perfect for the mission you describe. The are just a touch slow, but they can keep the 20 knot speed up in almost all weather conditions. They have also already been successful off in theater.

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Carnac
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 5:03 pm
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That's actually very close to what I mean. Have a UN-operated system using a significant number of them to guard loose "convoys" of ships (Essentially the UN would set up a transit time, and companies could opt to follow the convoy for protection)

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 5:10 pm
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Carnac wrote:
That's actually very close to what I mean. Have a UN-operated system using a significant number of them to guard loose "convoys" of ships (Essentially the UN would set up a transit time, and companies could opt to follow the convoy for protection)
Again, this is exactly what they are doing down there.
They even post their schedules online.

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Carnac
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 5:21 pm
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Oh, I didn't know that. This kinda makes the thread, pointless, doesn't it?

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Carthaginian
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 5:45 pm
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Demon Lord Razgriz wrote:
Carnac wrote:
What about a small, cheap Coastguard-cutter-eske design operated by the UN for escort and patrol? You don't need Tomahawks and ESSM against guys in a fishing boat. That actually gives me an idea for something to draw, lol.

Yeah... The USN's already ahead of you with two hulls meant for that already in the water, they're named the USS Freedom LCS-1 & USS Independence LCS-2.

Carnac probably is way ahead of the USN- thinking about something that is a lot cheaper and less electronics-dependent than either class of LCS... and this is from a guy that watches with pride as the latest ship to bear the name Montgomery takes shape in the Austel Mobile yard across the bay.

What we need to fight the pirates is not the LCS- it is a fast, primarily gun-armed vessel which does not depend upon a large electronics suite to be combat capable. The World Powers have an idiotic habit of thinking that something without a lot of computer screens and missiles are worthless in combat. To combat the pirates efficiently we need a ship which has:
1.) at least half-a-dozen heavy machine guns with good fields of fire
2.) a pair of small, rapid-fire naval guns (57mm sufficient) with self-contained FC
3.) a fairly standard electronics suite (GPS, VHF radio, surface search radar)
4.) several layers of kevlar inside the hull (can be applied as a refit)

Even the LCS is massive overkill for the mission- something like the Chinese Type 37 would be more than sufficient.


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 9:10 pm
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Carthaginian wrote:
What we need to fight the pirates is not the LCS- it is a fast, primarily gun-armed vessel which does not depend upon a large electronics suite to be combat capable. The World Powers have an idiotic habit of thinking that something without a lot of computer screens and missiles are worthless in combat. To combat the pirates efficiently we need a ship which has:
1.) at least half-a-dozen heavy machine guns with good fields of fire
2.) a pair of small, rapid-fire naval guns (57mm sufficient) with self-contained FC
3.) a fairly standard electronics suite (GPS, VHF radio, surface search radar)
4.) several layers of kevlar inside the hull (can be applied as a refit)

Even the LCS is massive overkill for the mission- something like the Chinese Type 37 would be more than sufficient.
You already have that. It's called a National Security Cutter or a High Endurance Cutter.

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Carnac
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 10:05 pm
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National Security Cutter spam in Somalia is not a bad idea.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 10:30 pm
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Thiel wrote:
You already have that. It's called a National Security Cutter or a High Endurance Cutter.
Or, a Perry class frigate.

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Carthaginian
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 10:33 pm
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Thiel wrote:
Carthaginian wrote:
Even the LCS is massive overkill for the mission- something like the Chinese Type 37 would be more than sufficient.
You already have that. It's called a National Security Cutter or a High Endurance Cutter.
At $400 million USD a copy, even the Bertholf class USCG Cutters are overkill!

For anti-piracy missions, what you truly need is more along the lines of a re-designed Reliance class Cutter. Replace the forward 25mm chain gun with a 30mm Bushmaster II, add several more .50 caliber MG's along the main deck, and trade the aft flight deck for a pair of stern ramps to launch 'Short-Range Prosecutor' 7m RHIBs. The 18 knot top speed could use an increase to about 20 knots, but that is doable without a lot of major alteration. Personally, I'd also add pair of TOW box launchers cribbed off a Stryker AFV to give the whole package enough punch to do combat with something it's own size.

This vessel would have sufficient to speed to chase down a captured merchant, sufficient armament to kill anything a pirate might show up in, enough bulk to handle an RPG strike or two, and sufficient cruising range (8000 n.mi. @ 12 kts) to remain on station a long time. It would also cost a fraction of any other option mentioned so far. Controlling pirates has to be done on the most penny-pinching budget possible; there are just too darn many of them to start talking about ships with pricetags in the $500 million USD ballpark.

EDIT: The original construction cost of these ships is listed as $3.5 million, with an adjusted cost of $21 million. This makes a lot more sense than deploying a Cutter that would rate as a frigate in many navies.


Last edited by Carthaginian on June 3rd, 2011, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Return of the Convoy?Posted: June 3rd, 2011, 10:35 pm
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TimothyC wrote:
Thiel wrote:
You already have that. It's called a National Security Cutter or a High Endurance Cutter.
Or, a Perry class frigate.
True, though I suspect the Hamilton class was cheaper to operate due to it's slightly smaller crew, simpler weapons fit and CODOG propulsion.

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