Shipbucket

With the Norwegian Navy want to replace the entire Fridtjof Nansen class frigate with a new class of "ocean going"-frigates. And after I was talking with my stepfather (former Navy officer in the Norwegian Navy and part of that time frigate project), we talked about the effect drones have in Ukraine, and other things that can and have come with drones. And some toughs of what would be a nice drone capability. It got my head thinking "What if"

So my "What if":
A frigate that is an drone carrier, and some of the capability of and carrier, and have some of the capability of an frigate, but are something in between. So I started to put down some ideas. Limitation must be that the hull have to be shorter than 150 meters, perhaps even shorter 135+ meters (limit size of the Norwegian Navy dock, inside a mountain, partially! (FN class have fit in there)). Should be a bit beamier for a larger displacement.

So what I have put down as my WIP-drawing, is by the numbers:

- Length: 147 meter
- Beam: 19 meter (Hull, a bit more if I chose to make the flight deck wider for helicopter operation, then UAV only flight deck, If only a UAV only flight deck, the helicopter would be limited to aft deck only.
- Power-plant: would be either 1 large turbine and 2-3 large diesel engine; or 1 large and 1 small turbine and 2 medium diesel engines. With a speed of around 26-28 knots+
- For radars, I haven't decided yet, but I am up to any suggestions.
- Simple armament: 1-3 x 57 mm gun; 16 cell Mk41 VLS; NSM; torpedoes.
- Aviation facility, would include 2 lifts. bellow deck hangar, with at least 2 medium helicopters and several drones (both helicopter variants and fixed wings variant.
- I think the main role for this Aviation-frigate, would be as and ASW-carrier with some ASuW support capability.

I am really interested in suggestion, ideas, changes. etc. even on the powerplant, placement of superstructure etc. I am also interested in any drone drawings that might be relevant

My favorite is the A2-version, but with the flight deck extended all the way back.

A novel set of concepts for sure. Reminds me of D K Brown's Advanced Frigate in concept (which I drew for my AU).

For the A2, I would be tempted to raise the stern helipad just so that the flight deck then is continuous and you can make better use of it and you can save the weight and expense of having two lifts.
Or you could just use the quarterdeck for NSM cans instead.

I'm in two minds whether the large UAV is really worthwhile given that most UAVs are small and agile and it increases the size of the ship for little benefit in combat ability. You might be better having a more conventional layout but with, say, the hangar/rear superstructure block roof left as a UAV deck with a small lift.

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Updated version.

Changes:
- Shorter, 139 meter (ish)
- enlarged superstructure
- moved VLS slightly, space for a large VLS as show in picture, not necessarily fitted (personnel working on Norwegian frigates, compaines that there is to few missile, although those frigates is an ASW-frigate)
- moved 57mm.
- removed sponson
- aft flight deck is for medium helicopter
- forward and center flight deck is for UAV (helicopter types and small winged) Norway have some winged UAV and are talking about larger variants.
- adjusted bellow deck hangar, making it more connected with RHIB-bay. Perhaps the flight deck can also be used as an flex-deck. So it doesn't always have to be fully used as an hangar.
- Twin turbine and a bigger forward funnel
- aft superstructure enlarged, there will be a flight ops. there

The profile of the ship is a little smaller then an ordinary frigate, some I find as a nice bonus!

Interesting! doesn't the in-mountain dock have limitations on beam as well?

I do wonder, what would the ships loose by going for the UAV deck? because a similar internal volume to the existing frigates with some new stuff on board, means some other stuff would no longer be on board?
It also looks as if you have a dock or steel beach, keep in mind that a ship with such an arrangement can have less optimal stern arrangements. Looking at the propulsion choices, you still want to go rather fast

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It might be a problem, but with how much bigger future ships are, the dock limited size will be a future problem. They had to enlarge it already one time for current frigates. and with how they enlarged it last time, gives room for enlarging it more. Specially if they want to keep one of the internal walkways. Last time they enlarged it, they removed the mountain roof and made it longer and wider.


Originally I had it at a length of 147 meter, for accurate that reason, but also for that extra space needed for UAV operators. Do have to take into account for reduced crew, due to automation (but then that didn't work on the current frigates, they had to increase the crew size from 105 to +-147). But I do gain a little, perhaps 1-2% with having the helicopter deck flush with the flight deck
Currently the hull is 6 meter longer then the existing frigates, some was already equipped quite lean (Media words). But I can always go back to the first version, when it come to length.
The dock, is more or less just a simple ramp, where I added on a little "lip" on the stern, to make a RHIB or random other type of equipped, get easier access, how much it affect the hull, I don't know. But I wan't to keep it simple.

Currently I was aiming at similar speed capability as Nansen (28 knots top) and perhaps fleet speed (with comfort). But with a little longer and wider hull, I went for double turbine. I am unsure on what powerplant would work best. I was considering either LM2500 or MT30. or just go for more diesel power, backed up by turbine.

I have got it confirmed, that the mountain dock at Haakonsvern is 140 meter long and 24 meter wide. So it looks like they build it with some growth margin
But the roof can be lifte up higher, since they removed the mountain on top and just added a normal roof. (They do have to add some new anchor points tough)

The entire mountain hall in it self, is 150 meter long and 30 meter wide.

The A2 looks better now, its shaping up nicely I think and doesn't look like you're trying hard to build a carrier but instead a frigate that happens to have a wide deck for UAV operations.

Will you be carrying any USVs/UUVs too?

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

That's the plan and I am considering it to. Norway have equipped all Coast Guard vessel with small ROV and Norway have quite some experience with UUV, specially in the mine-branch and with those vessels up for retirement and most likely being replaced.

Norway's military and Kongsberg and a few other companies have for a long time worked on USV and had several test vessel. And there is talk about a mother ship for USV.

So with the information I have confirmed about the size of the dock at Haakonsvern, I wouldn't be surprised if I can find space for it.

So small adjustment:

- Forward engine room, consist of two section! Upper and lower; in the lower, there are 2 diesel-generators and in the upper there are 2 LM2500 connected to generators.
- Resized the lift a little.
- Resized the main mast a little
- readjusted decks, in center compartments.

added an top-view with a suggestion on how the interior can be on the deck main deck:
- A suggested berthing compartment aft, with space for 88 beds, a cinema/entertainment/conference room and a gym. And a moring area
- Hangar as shown with 2 helicopters and 3-4 containers to illustrated the space and usage.

With this powerplant layoute, there is around 40/60.000 hp on turbines, combined (depending on version of LM2500) and around 10/20.000 hp on diesel.
With current berthing solution, there should be at least berthing space for 176 enlisted. Then berthing for junior officers and senior officers come on top of that. There should be at least 3-4 berthing area. where there is tow main berthing-area, aft and forward.

There are of course some questions, except what are seen one the drawing:
- Should the ship have an second large radar aft.
- What would be the best missile load, etc.
- How to classify the ship: ASW frigate-carrier, Helicopter-frigate. ASW UAV-Helicopter-frigate, ....

Then I have to go trough what you people have wrote and see if I need to do some changes.

What I am thinking this ship should be equipped with:
- 2 medium helicopters
- 3-6 UAV (helicopter)
- 2-4 small compact UAV (aircraft's) (must be dismantle able)
- Minimum 1 USV (Probably around 12-15 meter size) Stored aft.

Note! added a UAV-launcher a beam to the lift, as a last tough, only for small UAV-use