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orionfield
Post subject: Color ChartsPosted: July 3rd, 2020, 8:03 pm
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I was going through the Wiki today, and saw the US Navy WWII Color Chart for ships, and it got me thinking, would it be useful to anyone if we had something like that for FD scale subjects? (i.e. Armor Colors, and Aircraft camouflage)

Personally, I think that would make things easier and it would be nice to standardize colors too.

I would be interested to know what other folks think about it?

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Color ChartsPosted: July 3rd, 2020, 8:39 pm
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orionfield wrote: *
I was going through the Wiki today, and saw the US Navy WWII Color Chart for ships, and it got me thinking, would it be useful to anyone if we had something like that for FD scale subjects? (i.e. Armor Colors, and Aircraft camouflage)

Personally, I think that would make things easier and it would be nice to standardize colors too.

I would be interested to know what other folks think about it?
each nation in the world have there own color chart.

British Green isn't the same as French Green or American green, etc.
if you want to dra individual color chart for all the 197 countries in the world, for there Air force, army, Navy, coast guard, etc. pleas do. don't forget all us members that also have AU-topics to.


the idea is good, we did use a standard color in the past, but we have taken both SB and FD to a new and more accurate level, including color


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orionfield
Post subject: Re: Color ChartsPosted: July 3rd, 2020, 8:46 pm
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That’s what I’m talking about. I don’t think we need to make every single one, but if there’s some more popular ones, it may help people. I don’t mind making some that I know I would use fairly often.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Color ChartsPosted: July 3rd, 2020, 10:26 pm
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There is no need to bother with each country, as most of them don't bother to have their own color specs - be it because they are too poor to fancy such things, or because they found it more convenient to simply adapt some other country's standard (typically the one they have closest military links with), or they have no military at all.

Also, formal specifications aside, practical limitations of human vision (not mentioning computer technology) mean that quite often one wouldn't see really any difference between two colors (so some substitute is essentialy as good as 'proper' one)
(theoretically human eye is capable of recognizing some 6000 shades, but often one will see the difference only if samples were put literally next to each other)

Even then, though, it would leave easily at least some 20 countries that do have (or had in the past) some specific camo colors (that often evolved over time, and between services).

And there's another problem: finding what actually were these colors. Because if you type some color name, you will find dozens of samples of modeller's paints from different manufacturers, which will be usually very different from each other.

(here's a sample - 'RAF Azure Blue' - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=raf+a ... 64&bih=825 )

Worse than that: even if you happen to have an FS, BS381C or RAL number for such color (so it should be theoretically easy from now on) you'd still find at least several colour charts for each of them (each claiming it's the right one) that will also give different results.

Finally, there is one practical consideration - known to all modellers, but (I believe, based on observation) rather disregarded here on SB: effect of scale, or - in other words - aeromatic perspective. Simply speaking, as air isn't 100% transparent, colors tend to fade (decrease in intensity) when seen from a distance. Model - or a scale drawing, in this case - if painted with "basic" shade of given color, would look darker, than the real vehicle would seen from a distance at which it would seem to be of similar size (to observer). Modellers typically counter it by adding white or gray to used paint. So should such charts - if they were created - use "basic" colors ("as they are" on samples), or should they be altered by some factor - and if yes, by what and how to establish it so the conversion could be made on any (of several) graphic editors used by SB/FD artists?


All that said, I actually started making such color charts for my personal use (for a non-FD project I'm not prepared to discuss at the moment :P ), but so far only made US aviation colors (plus some of, what I call "technical colors" - metal, wood, glass, rubber, "standard white", "standard black" etc. etc.).
They are in two groups - pre-FS and FS. And keep in mind few things:
a) amount of shades differs a bit from usual FD practice;
b) "main" shade (2nd from left, the widest section) is usually (there were several exceptions, but, frankly, I don't remember which ones) based on "as is" color, without taking effect of scale into consideration;
c) because establishing "true" colors for some of them is next to impossible (try "Olive Drab" for example - and don't forget that during WW2 there was different OD for land vehicles and different OD for aircraft :lol: ), and some others were similar to each other, I applied a liberal dose of 'idontgiveadamnium'; ;)
d) samples of each of these colors can be found at various places over the web - and of course each of them is different from every other one, so I was just choosing one I liked most - based on completely personal, subjective and unscientific considerations. ;) (so if You disagree with some color - feel free, but I don't care ;) )
e) generally my aim was to have all shades (brighter/darker) change by regular factor(s), although for practical reasons this factor couldn't be the same for all colors;
f) while both in ANA and FS glossy and dull or matt colors are listed separately, it's impossible to really show for example "gloss" here, therefore this distinction was not followed;
g) note that although US military has it's own specs regarding "white" and "black", I didn't bother to make them, but would use "standard" ones instead.

That crude airplane on top shows the sample application of particular shades.

Generally I am planning to make similar charts of other major air forces, but I will do it only when I will have a right mood, and this project (for which they are) is designed to make me busy for the next 20 or 30 years, so don't wait with baited breath.

[ img ]

Sources:
Robert D Archer, USAAF Aircraft Markings and Camouflage 1941-1947: History of USAAF Aircraft Markings, Insignia, Camouflage and Colors (Schiffer Military Aviation History);
Dana Bell, Air Force Colors (vol. 1-3, Squadron/Signal Publications);
Thomas E. Doll, Berkley R. Jackson, William A. Riley, Don Greer (Illustrator), Navy Air Colors: United States Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard Aircraft Camouflage and Markings (vol. 1-2, Squadron/Signal Publications);
John M. Elliott, The Official Monogram U.S. Navy and Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide (vol. 1-4);
Yuji Matsuki, American Fighters Over Europe: Colors & Markings of USAAF Fighters in WWII (FineScale Modeler Books);
https://www.cybermodeler.com/
http://www.theworldwars.net/resources/
https://www.aircorpsart.com/blog/WWII-color-codes/

http://ams-std-595-color.com/
http://www.colorserver.net/
https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp


P.S. I believe that Imperialist did once a chart of Imperial Japanese air colors (both army and navy).


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