Shipbucket

By keeping the rules simple - you will get more entries. And less people taking potshots at the rules as stated.

Leave it at 35,000/16". The best of those dimensions were the two US classes. To make a faster ship than 26-27 knots you would have to reduce something - armour or gunpower or even both. More gunpower - less armour/speed. The ships will all have to be compromises.

Which then brings us all back to the Elephant in the room. Springsharp. I would suggest removing it entirely as was done with the last challenge. The number of ships in that challenge that were clearly overweight BUT because Springsharp said it was good everybody believed Springsharp. Anybody who believes in Springsharp needs to grow up. Springsharp is nowhere near exact - think +/- 20% errors or more, that Springsharp will just ignore. It can't add or subtract because the underlying program is very flawed. You Springsharp proponents have been told time after time - not just by me - but by Hood, Garlic Design and others that they only use Springsharp to check what they have done is believable and feasible. They do not believe all of what Springsharp says. They do not base their designs on a Springsharp report.

If you want to have a Springsharp challenge, I am sure you could start your own Discord channel/ Internet site and have at it.

He never said the SS report was required, you can go without it if you really hate it.

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Apart from my errors, it's literally just the treaties with a 28 knot requirement; Several people are already participating on the discord.
Please provide me with these magical 20% error battleships you speak of.

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"Ships of German origin: Design date no earlier than 1928"

I think you must have ment 1935? Otherwise France might want to visit with its army...

I was glad someone brought this up! I've put 1928, as from what I've found (Take with a grain of salt ), the first return to big ships, on the drawing board at least, was in 1928 with a battlecruiser armed with 12" guns.

Since the challenge is for date of design, I figured this was probably the earliest date that would be reasonable for a design, perhaps not construction though.

What do you think?

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Ah okay, I am (and the French are probably too ) fine with it, if its just about pure design date and its not going to be built.

P.S.:
The 1928 BC was just wishful thinking on Adm. Zenkers part, who thought that Germany might be able to negotiate some relaxations of the Versailles treaty. It was still a very cautious design (~20.000t & 13"guns), that would've been no match for a real treaty battleship.

Indeed, however such a submission would still be judged fairly against its contemporaries of the era!

Also;
I lazily updated the OP with a link to NavWeaps information on the treaties.

Apologies for the inconvenience caused by a lack of a formal list, this is much easier on myself.

Happy drawing!

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Deskjester - run the Hood through Springsharp and see what comes out.

https://puu.sh/Ah3Gm/2186d3c066.txt

The most conservative Bc, using her top speed of 30 knots in 41 and 144kshp would require her to have this Bc. Giving a strength of 0.9.

Simulated the thickest two decks, the 76mm over mags and 51mm armoured deck over everything; Shes actually thinner for most of her length than this.

If I try to set her max displacement to her 1941 max spec. shes well over 1.0 strength.


SpringSharp has its downfalls, and it's not the be all end all; However, its very competent at one thing, battleships!

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Checkout my SpringSharp tutorial!
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Hi everyone!

My two cents on the rules: Leave out post-treaty designs. Someone could draw the most beautiful LNT2-design in the most brilliant way with the perfect backstory and would still lose against a limitless max-out-Überbattleship drawn by my 6-year old son. I'd set the deadline prior to the call of the escalator clause.

Second, concerning Springsharp:

Iowa, USA battleship laid down 1940

Displacement:
44.515 t light; 48.127 t standard; 52.970 t normal; 56.845 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(888,85 ft / 860,30 ft) x 108,14 ft x (31,99 / 33,94 ft)
(270,92 m / 262,22 m) x 32,96 m x (9,75 / 10,34 m)

Armament:
9 - 15,98" / 406 mm 50,0 cal guns - 2.700,00lbs / 1.224,70kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1940 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 5,00" / 127 mm 38,0 cal guns - 59,33lbs / 26,91kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1940 Model
20 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
72 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm 70,0 cal guns - 2,18lbs / 0,99kg shells, 10.000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1940 Model
18 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 25.644 lbs / 11.632 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12,1" / 307 mm 559,19 ft / 170,44 m 12,47 ft / 3,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length
Main Belt inclined 15,00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1,61" / 41 mm 559,19 ft / 170,44 m 26,94 ft / 8,21 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82,02 ft / 25,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17,0" / 432 mm 9,49" / 241 mm 17,0" / 432 mm
2nd: 1,50" / 38 mm 1,50" / 38 mm -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 7,32" / 186 mm
Forecastle: 0,00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 4,76" / 121 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 16,14" / 410 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 212.001 shp / 158.152 Kw = 31,62 kts
Range 15.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8.718 tons

Complement:
1.745 - 2.269

Cost:
£26,863 million / $107,453 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4.615 tons, 8,7%
- Guns: 4.615 tons, 8,7%
Armour: 17.658 tons, 33,3%
- Belts: 3.574 tons, 6,7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 900 tons, 1,7%
- Armament: 4.368 tons, 8,2%
- Armour Deck: 8.326 tons, 15,7%
- Conning Tower: 490 tons, 0,9%
Machinery: 5.668 tons, 10,7%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16.173 tons, 30,5%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8.455 tons, 16,0%
Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0,8%
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
61.805 lbs / 28.034 Kg = 30,3 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 8,7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,13
Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
Roll period: 17,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,75
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,623 / 0,630
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29,33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00%, 36,09 ft / 11,00 m, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m, 20,67 ft / 6,30 m
- Aft deck: 35,00%, 20,67 ft / 6,30 m, 20,67 ft / 6,30 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00%, 20,67 ft / 6,30 m, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m
- Average freeboard: 23,58 ft / 7,19 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 166,6%
Waterplane Area: 69.513 Square feet or 6.458 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 200 lbs/sq ft or 975 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,88
- Longitudinal: 0,97
- Overall: 0,89
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Not very convincing if you ask me.

Greetings
GD