Shipbucket

Hi everyone!

@ Krakatoa: IMHO nobody is required to share anyone else's opinion on whether or not certain aspects of an AU's backstory are plausible or 'fundamental errors', because even if one of these opinions is right and the other wrong, the right one need not necessarily be yours. Differences of opinion are not necessarily a sign that one opinion is inferior to another and should not constitute a 'problem', especially not if, as you kindly suggested, we 'keep discussion in this thread off personalities'. This also applies to the tricky question if someone is obliged to include your AU in his personal top three list, as Hood apparently dared not to do. And if people chose not to discuss a topic at all, maybe they are not 'scared' but have just moved on to something more interesting.

In the hope that the above is not considered backseat moderation, my personal and probably irrelevant € 0,01 about 'realism'.

Making an AU is first and foremost fun. If realism suffers because things go somewhat over the top - so be it. If the story has a few holes, but the drawings are great, it's still a good AU; those with 'Zakroynia-Pao-Pao-Superpower'-style backstories usually don't feature decent drawings either (at least I have not found any). It's the ship drawings that are commented upon by most people, and I am no exception there. Even the best backstory does not make for a good AU if the associated drawings are mediocre kitbashes or look like my eight-year-old daughter could have done them. And a backstory is not 'good' because everyone's actions are always smart and right on hindsight. If someone choses to portray a nation descending into fascism and suffering from fraud, muddle and irresponsible political interference in the defence acquisition process, with some of its ships showing flaws because of these influences, there's realism for you.

Concerning the lamentation that all 'sexy' ships have been drawn: Seriously?? Look at the RN alone, I can't even decide where to start: The whole 1910 KGV-class is missing, as are Colossus and Hercules; no drawing of the Iron-Duke-class is in the archive; the B-class, Fearless-class and Weymouth-class light cruisers spring to mind, and virtually no early British destroyers have been drawn (Tribal-class, Swift, M-class, to name only those of which decent source drawings exist).

Greetings
GD

Thankfully at least the forum still hasn't sunken to a level where the first 2 or so pages of an AU thread from its most recent post are swamped in posts of "can u haz post new shipz evuryday or at least evury 3 dayz plz plz plz" or "dis battelcruzer is so kewl can u maek a BBCVGNX" or "can u plz make it moar tacticool so it cna do more dakka dakka" or "u shud use diz model 50000 25 inch nuke supahcalifragilic arty cuz its da best becuz ur 16 inch caliber blah blah gun sux", etc.

Anyway admittedly I'm not really the type who would readily dip my fingers into the more seriously technical aspects of a particular design (real-life, what-if, fictional, etc.) and would only make comments on something that's clearly obvious or apparent, or within the scope of my fairly noobish knowledge (i.e. "leave the action to those who know best"), and thus having the tendency to post the usual compliments on the drawings I really like by its drawing quality, its role, conversions, and its design at a first glance. (I haven't posted a lot in recent months owing to a bit of laziness, shifting interests and priorities, and the occasional loss of access due to a potential IP spam block)

It's fairly easy to be amazed with and appreciate the best stuff at face value, hook-line-and-sinker, and end up overlooking, ignoring, or at best accepting the less obvious deficiencies and flaws on the design(s) in question, at least when the dust hasn't settled yet so to speak. And just my thoughts, sometimes it's also fairly easy for one to end up withholding to post a well-thought reply critiquing the design of a drawing in question, perhaps because it might just be overlooked amidst the long stream of one-liners of praise and appreciation, or perhaps out of fear of bursting the bubbles.

I am not trying, or intending to usurp forum authority or anything, but I believe Krakatoa's statements seem to be an eye-opener and a wake-up call for us to step up and improve the tone and quality of our posts in the AU threads and other subjects in the Bucket. While there's no problem at all with saying those aforementioned one-liners when it is deserving, we could still make those intelligent, well-thought, well-researched, and productive discourses in AU and PD threads whenever necessary. That way everyone (newbies, regulars and veterans) could share and learn new knowledge and tricks of the trade and etc., thus we might even have better works (25, 50, 75, or 100% kitbash, or scratchbuilt) being churned out in the future.
But then, only our bosses (Sirs Golly and Colo) will have the final say...

Phew, after hours of careful thought and planning in posting my piece, and again, no offense was meant.

cheers ~ wb21

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>"Emotions are prohibited." —YoRHa No. 2, Type B ("2B"), NieR: Automata
>"Wow, if I wasn't a hardened killing machine, that mightta hurt..." —SSgt. John Lugo (1st SFOD-D), Spec Ops: The Line

Hi everybody.

I like to add few thoughts over the discussion about discussion in the Shipbucket forum. In foremost I like to remind you all about what the arc of shipbucket's history has been. At first all of the discussion took place between private e-mails between us artists or apprentices and our master, Mconrads, only after some time did joint chain-emails step in. And by that level we managed to create what still is a bulk of the archive. Then as the lot enlarged did the google group became our form of communication and as it was not that good way, a proper forum became along with Colosseum. In all the reason for this was to manage the technical and artistical discussion and maintain the uploading process among the increasing memberbase. But always, the idea and main focus has been the drawing. The use of the forum has brougth many side effects, in good way it has allowed controlled spreading into different usage of shipbucket artistry, inculding extended possibilities for the AU sub genre, but in flipside it has brougth some unwanted issues, like normal internet drama, useless hang-arounds and constant spam that all universal proplems in open internet forums.

But overal we have managed really well. There is discussion, and in 95% its been productice, inspiring and polite for us artists and helped us along in our path to become better artist, and only so seldomly it has showed its negative aspects and in due course of our history, we have had few unfortunate cases of cyper-bullyuing and deliberate trolling. But those we have overcome, and I feel actually wery proud of this forum and you guys, since none of that has took place for couple of years now and ever since we disbanded our heavy moderator guard, things have gone better, mature and civilised directions. Im not worried personally over the level of discussion here. We are shipdrawing forum, our work is amateour art. If you spend time in other such art sections of the internet, you will find discussion relating the art beeing mostly "oneline superlatives". Its the common practice, and its polite and respectfull towards the artist. I myself don't expect nothing more and if i allow myself to brag a little, I've done my latest AU round now 2 years, and its going to be about few months before I get to post next update and by then I've completed the 3rd version of this same AU that I've been doing for Shipbucket since 2007 and totaly probaly most of my life. And I know after I've posted those 100 or so ships I get the few old chaps doing their routine compliments and few polite smalltalk questions over. But thats fine and ok for me and I don't feel ignored or forgotten becouse of it. I don't make my AUs for discussion sake. I Don't expect outside input for my ideas and wierd fantasies, and its polite not to offer them Communal AU's are other issue, but I suspect many other AU artist feels the same way.

In the end, all AUs are impossible, unplausible, faulty and poorly thougth compared to reality. Thats why theay are alternative universe, otherwise they would have happened. And in here, they should provide us a backstory for our ship drawings, a glue to tie them together and scenery for the main art in the exhibition. If someone feels more intresses in the actuall AU scenarios rather than the ships, there are other venues in interet where one could express himself than Shipbucket forum.

But in the end, having discussion, more discussion and more collobrative work in the AU section is not forbidden, but its up to you guys to impliment it. As long as you remember to be polite, remember that this is paramountly about art, then the stage is yours, discuss!

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

I don't know what you're talking about. When I made the comment in the Yamato thread, the last thing on my mind was the discussion in GD's thread. I am on vacation in the Colorado mountains and getting into vacant arguments on the internet about ship drawings is frankly not high on my list. What I really meant by that comment was my desire to see new members come and contribute quality equal to the Yamato Aegis thread and be able to have a civil discussion about it without blowing their top and stomping off in anger.

Again, whatever perceived slight you think I've committed against you in the GD thread was not the reason for my original comment.

I will echo your annoyance at the "awesome" brigade (emperor andreas has twenty six hundred posts, nearly all of them "very nice work!", "awesome work!", etc), but then again this is an art forum and as Gollevainen says that's just par for the course. You are naturally free to continue your detailed critiques but my only advice to you is to phrase your suggestions more politely. As someone with a turquoise name and the "premium member" tag you are expected to set a good example for new members in tone of critique.

I've casually googled for a forum add-on that would allow users to "like" posts (perhaps this would save Mr. Andreas some trouble... not a dig at you man, it's just funny!)

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USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

I too would very much like a like button.

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Hey, Colo!
I feel seriously offended! I have sixty seven hundred posts, nearly all of them "very nice work!", "awesome work!", etc. and You have chosen the Emperor Andreas as an example instead? Pfff... it's so rude.


And more seriously: the "like" button would be IMHO indeed a useful feature.

I am not complaining....

I think its only fair to say if you like something. If someone has spent 3 weeks researching and drawing and then nobody responds at all, or if you just receive a nitpick that the galley stovepipe is 1 pixel too thick, I think that's pretty morale sapping.
If its good and you genuinely think its good then say so and offer any suggestions if improvements can be made.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

@Hood
Certainly it's much better when something is actually written, than mere "like" is given. On the other hand, I remember (arguably it was long ago) period when some people complained that it's hard to get any comment, unless some error has been made, so I thought then maybe it's still better to get a "like" than nothing.
But in general I agree wholeheartedly that it's much better for morale when the feedback is made with at least minimum effort (like when typing these few words of appreciation).

often when I comment something, or have time to. I study pictures of that vessel