Shipbucket

Canis: Shipbucket guns are not to scale. This creates the unfortunate problem that to fit the barrel into the same space as provided for on a to-scale and correctly located hull and superstructure, the guns must be at proportionally greater elevation. The turrets are in the correct places. I will very carefully measure barrel lengths to try and minimize the angle (presently 25 degrees elevation) at which I have to display the barrels to make them fit, but they are probably going to have to be higher than the 5 degrees or so I believe they had to be at historically to actually fit due to gun scaling issues. My goal is to get them down to 10 - 15 degrees elevation.


And, for the evening, and since I don't think I'll be able to replicate this amount of progress anytime soon with classes starting back up next week (though I think this was really good for only two days of intermittent work), progress to date:




Please remember that for things like Rangefinders and other equipment when doing the basic structural hull and superstructure I will make placeholders to try and reflect their shape and then correct them to an accurate form later, so if those look off, they will be corrected before the final version, fear not.

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"Once movement was detected, the crew attempted to raise anchor and maneuver away from the shore, but the weather and sea conditions made this difficult. By the time the anchor was raised, the ship had been pushed too close to the shore to recover." Next time, guys, grab a blowtorch.

I guess that Canish was discussing about this



Normally all guns should be horizontal and I don't see special reason to draw the third barrel tilted.

Moreover I understood what do you mean for 5-10 deg... Is it necessary this 1 pixel matter?!?

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Yes. Look closely--there is some equipment projecting forward from the superstructure which I have not yet drawn. When you factor that in, it is much more than a half pixel, and the gun barrels must be elevated to clear it. The gun barrels to Turret No.3 cannot be drawn at 0 elevation... Because that is something that they were never, ever, ever at in the service lives of the class, unless someone had too much Sake and whacked off part of the ship. One very important rule of shipbucket is to not protray ships with damage; putting the barrels at zero degree elevation which would be tantamount to displaying the ship with a barrel train incident and damage.

Every single picture in LaCroix and Wellis as well as every single line drawing shows the barrels partially elevated to clear this equipment and the superstructure. It is part of the distinctiveness of the class and a fundamental element of the design, and is far more accurate than deleting equipment or altering turret placement to make rigid adherence to standards work. There are always cases where genuine exception is necessary; this is one of them.

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"Once movement was detected, the crew attempted to raise anchor and maneuver away from the shore, but the weather and sea conditions made this difficult. By the time the anchor was raised, the ship had been pushed too close to the shore to recover." Next time, guys, grab a blowtorch.

They're right; the barrels simply cannot elevate that low, nor would they ever have been in service.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good way to draw gun barrels with a lower degree of elevation so they look less out of place?

And with that, I quit this thread too.


If people aren't going to bother to think out their criticism in the slightest, well, I'm not going to be doing their thinking for them.

The rule of the thumb is, always at 0 angle with barrels. Unless the normal angle is something else... aside the russian Novik's, there are really few ships with that sort of feature, this one migth be one of them.

Proplem is, that Shipbucket style doesen't really allow (in ways of looking nice) to drawn angled barrels, so thats why the rule has more aesthetical purpose...
How did the source drawing place the barrels? Care to post that one and I could try to figure out something...

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I can post the original line drawings from LaCroix and Willis as well as about fifty different pictures, but finding them on the internet is slightly hard; nonetheless:

Chokai, sistership:



A bit distant, but here are the barrels at elevation on Takao:



Japanese cruiser Maya, also of same class, barrels at elevation:



The cover of the book I'm using as a reference:



And so on. I'll upload the plan drawings from said book if you insist, but the simple fact is that No.3 turret could not go to zero degrees train without the barrels at 5 degrees elevation. This was a design feature, and not problematic, because the turrets used on the class had fixed elevation loading at 5 degrees.

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"Once movement was detected, the crew attempted to raise anchor and maneuver away from the shore, but the weather and sea conditions made this difficult. By the time the anchor was raised, the ship had been pushed too close to the shore to recover." Next time, guys, grab a blowtorch.

I've no objections to the angled gun in this drawing. Logically it can't be any other way.

This ship is progressing well and I can't wait to see further progress. These were among the oddest looking ships of the 1930s but were very impressive and spectacular ships to see.

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I understood yes. I was kinda hoping to see the drawing so that I could offer my help in trying to draw the barrel in their rigth angle with most fashionable manner.

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I agree with M_I. The excellent 1/700 scale model of the Chokai in her 1937 guise that I've built and for which I used, among other sources Lacroix' book and elevations also had her 'Q' turret barrels elevated, in this case, about 15 degrees, due to scale interference. So, when depicting this class with the turrets trained fore-and-aft, there always should be an elevation!

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen