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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 17th, 2016, 8:38 pm
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Those are a great looking cruiser GD.

For their age and fittings, they are almost perfect ;)

Seriously, when these ships are matched against their peers, they do not suffer in comparison. A bit less armour than some, more than others. Just as good an armament as carried by most. I have never gone with the "build 8" guns" just because everybody else has. My favourite cruiser gun is the 7.5" so your 7.6-7.7" gun is fine by me.

I will be interested to see what a super-cruiser looks like in the future.

This latest set of battles interdicting the southern route 'round the Cape' is why Britain should not allow Thiaria to remain in the war after 1940. It wasn't just the food convoys from Australia/NZ that were important but also all the beef convoys going from Argentina to Britain. Though those convoys would stop once Thiaria starts plundering Brazil. (You have not interdicted those so far?)

I do not think the 'Allies' of 1940-43 have enough escorts to be able to satisfactorily cover all of the shipping that brought food/resources to Britain through the South Atlantic routes. Up till June 1940 the ships can be re-routed through the Mediterranean where possible, but the Suez canal is a bottleneck that does slow things down when you are trying to put 40+ ships through the canal zone. Recherché's navy would help with the escort duties, but extra escorts would be needed (maybe ring Atlantis and see if they are free to fight a war.)


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 17th, 2016, 9:11 pm
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A very pretty drawing, although I find it hard to imagine a cruiser being built with such a pitiful secondary armament, never mind persisting with such armament years into WW2!


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 17th, 2016, 10:08 pm
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Beutiful looking Crusiers GD :!:

Jolly WELL DRAWN my old Fruit Bat :D

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 17th, 2016, 10:31 pm
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Another excellent addition!


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 17th, 2016, 11:22 pm
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erik_t,

The British CA's had four single 4" for a large part of their service from completion in the late 20's through to the refurbishment with twin 4" from 1937 onwards. The early 6" cruisers of the Leander/Amphion types (11 ships) also completed with single 4". The Arethusa class were the first British cruisers completed with twin 4" 1937+, quite a few still had single 4" at wars start and did not receive their upgrades till after wars start.

It is a bit strange to leave it at so few guns if more could be added. But like a lot of the tonnage limited ships, topweight became a real problem when wartime additions meant finding other non-essential equipment to remove.


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Rowdy36
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 18th, 2016, 4:44 am
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Excellent looking cruisers GD, and the backstory is a great read as usual!

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 18th, 2016, 9:31 am
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More stunning beautiful cruisers to look at! Lovely work GD.

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iiradned
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 18th, 2016, 6:01 pm
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Very handsome cruiser there.


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 23rd, 2016, 7:00 pm
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Hello again!

3.2. Ogleidhras-Class
With the Craigmiadh-class, the Thiarians had created a fine, reliable and seaworthy cruiser type, which was not significantly weaker than the average 1920s ten-thousand tonner of any foreign navy. But by the time they were building, well-protected heavy cruisers like the Italian Zara-class and the British Surrey-class came into service, whose tough hides placed them at a distinct advantage compared to the thinly protected Craigmiadhs. Especially the Surreys were considered direct adversaries (rightfully; all four spent a significant part of WWII in the South Atlantic), and the Thiarian navy demanded more speed, protection and secondary armament to enable them fighting the Surreys on even terms. Interestingly, upgunning them was not an issue; the Thiarian Navy believed that the performance gap between a 195mm piece and a 203mm one was not big enough to justify a new development. Before the first Craigmiadh-class vessel was launched, plans for an upscaled version with 110mm side and 50mm horizontal armour, 90.000hp for 32 knots speed and two more 100mm twin flaks on a displacement of 10.000 tons were prepared. The fact that Thiaria would exceed its tonnage total by building the two remaining cruisers to these plans was simply ignored, and officially, they were referred to as improved 9.000 tonners. Externally, they very much resembled the Craigmiadhs, but their forward tripod masts were replaced with a roughly pyramidal tower bridge with better arrangement and more space for command and control installations. Torpedoes and boats were re-arranged in order to extend the forecastle deck further aft, increasing accommodation and seakeeping abilities. Both ships were ordered in 1932 and laid down in 1933; construction took 32 respectively 39 months. LT Ogleidhras (named for an indecisive naval battle in 1803 between French and British forces off the western coast of the Eilean Deilf, which was important for Thiaria's naval tradition because three of the ships in Latouche-Treville's French fleet were manned by Gaelic Thiarians and flew the Thiarian flag for the first time in battle) was built by the CSCA yard at Abertemar, LT Rinnfiain (named for an episode during the Brazilian occupation of New Portugal in 1923, when Thiarian insurgents damaged the huge new Brazilian battleship Riachuelo with a coastal battery of outdated 240mm guns; the Brazilians eventually stormed the gun bunker and killed the insurgents, who attained martyr status) was built by the Nuatearman naval yard. As completed, the two cruisers displaced 10.400 tons standard and looked like this:

[ img ]

Their engines needed 96.000 hp to attain design speed on standard displacement; in practice, they were slightly slower than the Craigmiadhs. Seakeeping was better, however, and they could sustain 30 knots in a seaway. Like the Craigmiadhs, the Ogleidhras-class did not receive their full aircraft complement at the start, but had to wait for availability of a sufficiently compact scoutplane to fit into their hangars. Only Ogleidhras was completed without funnel caps; Rinnfiain got them from the start, because at that time the smoke interference troubles of the Craigmiadhs were already identified. Unlike their smaller half-sisters, Ogleidhras and Rinnfiain abstained from flag-showing journeys prior to the war. At the eve of World war II, they looked like this:

[ img ]

LT Rinnfiain had the questionable honour of firing Thiaria's first shot of the war. When three British cruisers entered waters which were claimed by Thiaria during their pursuit of the German large cruiser Graf Spee, Ogleidhras and Rinnfiain intercepted them. On orders of Minister Murchada, who acted without authorization, the Thiarian cruisers opened fire when the British refused to back off; they inflicted 32 hits on HMS Cumberkand, sinking her, and then drove away the two remaining British light cruisers. After this engagement, both belonged to the forward scouting group of the Thiarian battleship squadron and were engaged by a superior Royal Navy fleet in the battle of Portiasc. The Thiarians opened the engagement with a torpedo volley, forcing the British battleships to evade, and fired at the British screening forces. Their precise fire dealt considerable damage to the British heavy cruiser HMS Essex, and things were developing well... when Ogleidhras was hit by a torpedo that ripped her stern off and damaged her rudder. As she veered away, her rudder fell off entirely, and she went to flank speed to get away from the battle zone, only capable of traveling in a more or less straight line. Rinnfiain provided covering fire; the pursuing British cruiser HMS Northumberland was heavily damaged and had to cancel the chase. Rinnfian herself received a dozen hits in the process, and two escorting Thiarian destroyers were sunk. After an hour of intense fighting, the Thiarian scouting group was in full retreat, and the main battlefleet was very nearly annihilated. Hardly any Thiarian ship escaped undamaged. Although Ogleidhras nearly sank, she suffered no severe structural damage forward of the rudder shaft, could be repaired relatively quickly and was back in service after six weeks. Rinnfiain was out of commission for eight months; both ships had impressively proven that they were considerably tougher than the Craigmiadhs. Ogleidhras took part in the battle of Poncportan in early June, when the last handful of operational Thiarian ships wiped out a Royal Navy battlegroup around the battlecruiser HMS Howe and the carrier HMS Repulse. Ogleidhras and the light cruisers Fulaingt and Ardcheim engaged the British heavy cruiser HMS Kent and sank her without much damage to themselves. Later in 1940, Ogleidhras took part in several raids against British convoys around the Cape, and on December 3rd, her gunnery was credited with sinking the Recherchean light cruiser Black. In March 1941, Ogleidhras and Rinnfiain took part in the battle of Cairnmallacht against the Brazilians; Rinnfiain sank a destroyer and Ogleidhras damaged the heavy cruiser Almirante Abreu, which escaped. At that time, they had received a full radar suite, swapped their 13mm machineguns for the same number of 20mm cannon and embarked more modern scoutplanes, looking like this:

[ img ]

During the following months, both cruisers accompanied the carriers, not making contact with enemy surface forces, but repeatedly having to defend themselves against air and submarine attacks. The June/July 1941 unrest in the Thiarian fleet hit Rinnfiain only slightly and Ogleidhras not at all, mostly due to the diplomatic talents of their respective skippers who talked the communist crewmen into standing down and then made sure their promises of amnesty were actually kept. Ogleidhras later escorted the battlecruiser Conlan, with half her crew in the brig, into Noyalo, and remained in the Bauaine for three months, while the Thiarians fed fresh, politically reliable crewmembers to their ships and subjected them to an intense training programme. Ogleidhras and Rinnfiain were among the few large Thiarian units who retained peak readiness at that time. They sortied with the fleet for the battle of Punta del Diablo, where Thiarian carrier airplanes decimated what forces the Brazilians had left; neither cruiser had to fire a shot during the engagement. After covering the carrier force during its operations against ground targets in Brazil during the rest of 1941, Ogleidhras, Rinnfiain and the older Trasolas were again sent raiding into the Indian Ocean, at first with little success. On March 28th, all three engaged an allied convoy travelling close to the Namibian coast (so air support could be called in from Windhoek if necessary) and were beaten back by long-range fire from the Recherchean pocket battleship Balladonia, which hit Rinnfiain from 23 kilometers out and disabled Turret A, resulting in a Thiarian retreat. While Rinnfiain was under repair, Ogleidhras was assigned back to the carrier strike force. She first operated off the Brazilian coast, then took part in the raid against Capetown on August 18th, 1942, again without any surface engagement. When the British, desperate to take the pressure off the Cape Route, hastily rushed every available RN, Free French and Recherchean unit into the South Atlantic, the Thiarian fleet was ignorant of this deployment mainly because of its improvised nature. They sortied to chase the next British convoy and were hit out of the blue by the air groups of three British carriers in the battle of Meanhchiorcal. The British torpedoed and sunk the carrier Antartach and the heavy cruiser Rinnfiain, and damaged the battleship Athartha and the carrier Stoidiaca. The remaining Thiarians retreated. At the time she was lost, Rinnfiain carried 28 20mm flaks in addition to her other armament, looking like this:

[ img ]

Ogleidhras was not hit and was available when the Thiarians assembled forces for their most famous, daring, and ridiculously useless operation of the whole war: The Panama Raid. On October 4th, she sailed together with two newer heavy cruisers, the battlecruiser Conlan, the Fleet carrier Realtbhuion and six large destroyers, plus every fast combat support ship in Thiaria's inventory. The raid went smoothly - as described further above - although Ogleidhras did not score. After her return, Ogleidhras took part in an all-out sortie to support a Thiarian tactical invasion behind Brazilian lines in early May. The British were aware of this plan - courtesy of Ultra - and sent two powerful fleet squadrons - albeit each one individually inferior to the concentrated Thiarian strike fleet - to catch the Invasion fleet. The Thiarian C-in-C Cuighnahan swallowed the bait and let himself be lured away from the Invasion fleet, which was then attacked by the British and literally massacred. When the Thiarian main fleet reached the battle zone, the British were dispersed in their effort to hunt down as many Thiarian transports as possible, and Cuignahan's ships wreaked bloody revenge. British losses in the subsequent battle of Faoigabhar were staggering, including two battleships, two fleet carriers, an escort carrier, a heavy cruiser and two light cruisers. Ogleidhras was credited with sinking the already damaged aircraft carrier HMS Renown with gunfire and all six starboard torpedoes (three hits, one of them a dud). Two British destroyers desperately tried to defend the crippled carrier, which were both sunk too by four accompanying Thiarian destroyers, but not before they had dealt over twenty 120mm hits to Ogleidhras. After the battle, Ogleidhras was taken in hand to repair the damage and have her electronics suite upgraded, from the air and surface search sets all the way to the HA and LA fire control radars. She also received additional 20mm cannon for a total of 40 and embarked the new 1943 pattern torpedoes with oxygene propulsion. She also had her machinery overhauled and received some internal strengthening. Although new scoutplanes were available, they were not embarked because the hangars were too small. When she was re-commissioned in August 1943, she looked like this:

[ img ]

Although Ogleidhras had been painted in the blue 'raider' livery, she was only once employed as such after her modernization. The British had started to attack their own supply convoys to New Portugal with surface forces from August, and on August 27th, Ogleidhras sortied to intercept a strong British raiding force. Poor weather incapacitated the superior naval air assets of the Brits, and they turned away when the Thiarian fleet came into radar range. On September 17th, 1943, the Thiarians reciprocated and Ogleidhras went for an allied troop convoy headed for Brazil, accompanied by the newer heavy cruiser Caitriona and the light cruiser Urgharda. They managed to sneak up to the close escort group under cover of a spring storm, and Ogleidhras managed to get the escort carrier HMS Pretoria Castle into her sights. While Ogleidhras reduced Pretoria Castle to a sinking condition, the British cruiser-destroyer escort group charged the Thiarians, sank a Thiarian destroyer and torpedoed Caitriona; Urgharda was damaged by gunfire. The British lost the light cruiser Phoebe and three destroyers, all to Thiarian destroyer torpedoes, but the convoy managed to disperse and the Thiarians did not catch a single merchant. This - although they did not know it yet - was the last offensive sweep of the Thiarian Navy, because they had their hands full defending their holdings afterwards. A major British raid was conducted nearly simultaneously with Ogleidhras' aforementioned sweep, and although that one was a costly failure (one Free French light fleet carrier was sunk by Thiarian land-based torpedo aircraft), Ogleidhras was assigned convoy escort duties for the rest of the year. On October 10th, she narrowly escaped doom when a British carrier task force attacked her convoy halfway between Thiaria and New Portugal and destroyed the heavy cruiser LT Corcaigh, two destroyers and seven merchants. Her next convoy was attacked by submarines, and Ogleidhras had to powerlessly watch as the merchants were mercilessly decimated. To add injury to insult, she received a torpedo hit as well, having to limp home with a ten degree list and 1.500 tons of water in her hull. Repairs took five months and included a thorough modernization. She lost the 100mm twins abreast the aft director; one of them was landed, the other was installed superfiring the 100mm mount on the centerline aft. All 37mm twins were landed as well, as were two of her four 559mm triple torpedo sets. Four fully automatic 37mm quad mounts were installed abreast the aft superstructure, complete with two radar-guided directors. The number of 20mm cannon was brought to 52, the HA directors were replaced with more modern ones and the electronics suite was upgraded again. Due to the considerable added weight, she had to be bulged by about a meter on either side, increasing standard displacement to 11.300 tons and reducing top speed to 30 knots. When she re-entered service in March, she looked like this:

[ img ]

She then took part in the Battle of Anfa Caolas on April 20th, 1944, which has been described before. Her fire damaged the US destroyer O'Connor - ironically named after the Thiarian naval hero Sean O Conaire, who had served as a mercenary in the USN during the war of 1812 - and the Brazilian cruiser Deodoro, but the latter also dealt eleven 152mm hits to her. The battle, despite being rated a tactical Thiarian victory, further weakened Thiaria's ability to defend New Portugal. Ogleidhras was repaired and again assigned to convoy escort duties, which became more and more hazardous as the Allies continuously increased their strength. In May and June, the Thiarians twice repulsed major carrier-based air raids against their convoys; Ogleidhras shot down a total of nine enemy airplanes. But on June 28th, the Thiarian distant cover group was too late, and the convoy - including three escort carriers - was annihilated. On July 23rd, a mix of British, Recherchean and Free French ships tried to strike Thiarian oil fields in Tir Nimhnuil, and Ogleidhras sortied again with a fleet led by the battleship Athartha. Although the Thiarian surface forces were outnumbered, the Allies were hit by a massive land-based Thiarian air strike, which damaged a British and a Recherchean battleship and three allied cruisers. The Recherchean cruiser Boxer sank due to the damage received, and HMRS Munglinup was finished off by Thiarian destroyers under covering fire of Ogleidhras and two light cruisers, which sank a Recherchean destroyer and damaged two more. Thus, Ogleidhras fired the last heavy caliber shot of the Thiarian navy during the war. When Thiaria descended into civil war soon afterwards, Ogleidhras' crew remained loyal to the fascist government. Nearly half her crew went ashore to fight rebels and mutineers during September, but suffered severe losses. When the fleet was caught in the rebellion, Ogleidhras dispatched a strong boarding team to the mutinous battleship Tirghra, which was wiped out when the rebels blew up several 370mm shells in Turret A. With her most loyal crewmembers decimated, Ogleidhras was taken over by mutineers a day later and sailed for An Trionaid on October 11th. There she saw the end of the war. She was undamaged, but quite worn out, so she was not selected for the co-belligerent force which was dispatched to the Pacific in 1945. Ogleidhras had to be demilitarized under peace treaty conditions in 1948. She lingered for some years in a disarmed state as stationary accomodation ship; she was finally scrapped in 1961. Of all Thiarian cruisers, she had accumulated the largest mileage and scored - by far - the most kills. The only surviving pre-war heavy cruiser of the Thiarian Navy was one of the most famous 'lucky ships' of either side in World War II.

Greetings
GD


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 23rd, 2016, 7:18 pm
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Another great set of drawings. Those cruisers are pretty handsome aren't they?

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