Shipbucket

So I'm going to be working with Keisser to make an alternate universe scenario in which World War Two drags on for more than 10 years after it historically ended. This thread will start slow as we (or just me) will not only use original WW2 ship and vehicle designs, but we are also going to make AU designs aswell.

Many more nations will activity participate in the war, such as simply supplying or manufacturing arms for instance. In order to make this entire scenario possible, nearly every event in real life has been changed, such as D-Day never taking place or Japan winning the Battle of Midway.

The next post will include maps from 1939-1958, as well detailing the advances made by both sides of the conflict.

Some notes about the AU:

-Even though the war continues into the 50's, the technology will remain the same, and the simple excuse is that both sides of the war decided to spend money on manufacturing conventional weapons instead of advancing in technology.
-I know the global economy will pretty much collapse at this much prolonged war, but we are either going bend the rules of economics a bit or make up some reasons.

Once everything is done and polished to perfection, this will be posted someplace else.

-WIP-


-Germany invades Poland
-More German, Italian and Japanese naval, air and army academies are opened. This allows the Axis to train more experienced soldiers, airmen and naval officers. This highly trained soldiers are crucial. These academies remain open for men between the ages of 18-30 only.
-France and Britain declare war on the Axis
-French conscription begins

-Belgium and Holland join the Allies
-US conscription for men between the ages of 18-40 begins
-USA supplies the Allies with equipment and other resources
-Axis annexes the surrounding countries
-Syria and Lebanon side with the Axis
-Russia annexes the Baltic States

-Germany attacks Holland and Belgium, heavy fighting ensues. Britain and France send ground, air and navy support, but are unsuccessful in stopping them. What's left of the Dutch Navy join the allies. Allied navy has trouble with German U-boats
-Germany also attacks France and is met with heavy resistance from French and British Forces
-Japan will attack Pearl Harbor later that year. USA joins the Allies

-Germany invades Egypt, Tunisia and Libya. Heavy fighting occurs. Italian navy is supported by a smaller German fleet and engages the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean
-Gibralta is taken over, severaly inhabiting the Royal Navy's ability to enter the Meditaranion
-Norway provides Germany with valuable resources and dockyards, allow the small German navy much needed support. Germany will make plains for expanding their fleet
-Japan steadily gains ground against China and Pacific islands, but are met with heavy resistance. small Chinese navy delays Japanese reinforcements on occasion
-America starts building up it's army and navy
-American navy begins to battle the Imperial Japanese Navy, both small and large scale battles occur
-Chinese Navy is eventually defeated

-Britain annexes Iceland with no resistance
-Ireland joins the Allies
-Greece and Turkey join the Axis
-Japan continues her campaign in the Pacific against the British and the Americans. The Philippians are invaded and is well defended.

-Germany invades Russia.
-Russian conscription begins for men between the ages of 17-40
-Germany captures Sweden
-Germany's naval power begins to grow
-Heavy fighting in France continues. U-boats continue to disrupt supply lines from the UK and the US, but it becomes more difficult as the US navy grows in both the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans
-Russia captures Finland
-Germany captures Egypt and the rest of West Africa. More resources flow in from Africa through the Mediterranean as the British fleets retreat from Africa and back into the Atlantic.
-Russia begins to build up her navy
-Japan captures the Philippians and invades Russia aswell
-South Africa begins to supply the Allies, specifically the British forces, with equipment, soldiers and vehicles. Shipyards are also under construction
-US Atlantic fleet gets more active against the Axis
-US Pacific fleet, with support from Australia and New Zealand repeatedly repel Japan's attempted invasions of other Pacific islands
-The US decides to spend more money on training soldiers and manufacturing war machines to keep up the pace with the Axis, and fund development of new weaponry and technology considerably less. Japan and Germany do the same.
-The UK shares valuable technology such as radar. Most US warships are refitted with this technology

-President Roosevelt dies and Harry Truman becomes the next US president
-Britain begins more extensive conscription, from ages 17-40 in infantry roles, and 18-35 in navy and air force roles
-First Russian warships begin to battle German navy
-Saudi Arabia joins the Allies and supplies raw materials, but are harassed by German U-boats. Small South African naval units begin to take a more active role and help with escort duties
-Japan continues to capture more territory and acquires much needed resources. With these new resources, Japan's military power grows. Japan also captures Russian ports to allow it to support much larger fleets. The IJN also invests in more aircraft carriers and fighter craft, which becomes crucial and evens the playing field with the US forces.
-Japan extends it's naval and aviation academies to woman
-Germany steadily captures more Russian territory
-Spain and Portugal join the Axis
-Russian conscription for girls and boys between the ages of 16-45 begins

-With British supply lines cut off from France via blockades, France falls quickly soon after
-Japan continues to capture more territory
-US and South African navy battles Axis naval units in the Atlantic. This distraction allows supplies to flow a bit better from the US and Britain, just as Germany begins to bomb England
-Japan begins preparations for an invasion of Australia bit are constantly delayed by UK and US naval and air units, putting strain on Japan and slowing their progress.
-Because of the amount of support Britain had provided, they are left strained and bother Germany significantly less
-The US sends more reinforcements across the Atlantic ocean and more fighting between the Germans occur

-US conscription is extended to men and woman between the ages of 18-35. This results in a massive boost in manpower
-Sweden and Finland are captured by the Axis in a few months
-China surrenders, and both Japan and Russia attempt to capture as much ground as possible, spreading both sides thin. Fighting along China's Northern border is heavy and costly for both sides.
-Germany continues to push into Russia and capture Moscow after months of fighting. Both Russia's army and fleet take a beating
-Japan captures the entirety of Southern Asia and preparations for the invasion of Australia are nearly complete.
-US forces tighten defenses for coming invasion and regularly target IJN ships that come near Australian waters
-Mexico joins the Allies
-Germany gains more ground as the months go by and began to make preparations for an invasion of Britain. At this stage Britain is strained from the war, but is still being reinforced by the US Atlantic fleet. Germany's large navy keeps the US at bay and invade England by land and air, with support from off shore units
-Germany gains access to vital fuel reserves in the Middle East
-Japan invades India from the East, aswell as Shri-Lanka. Both the navy and the army are met with little resistance.
-Japan invades Australia and are met with fearsome resistance from combined US and Commonwealth troops. The Japanese fleet keep the US Navy at bay by engaging them far from Australian waters
-South Africa starts to supply the US with ships and navy personnel
-Germany advances in Africa
-Germany captures London, Ireland and invades Scotland. Britain refuses to surrender. Winston Churchill is snuck out of England and taken to the US
-Japan gains access to the rest of the Indian ocean and bombards India. Remnants of the Royal navy there is destroyed. Germany blockades South Africa
-Japan slowly gains ground in Australia
-Japanese and Russian forces continue to fight, with the IJA winning more victories as a result of Russia focusing more in the West. Germany's focus on Africa and Britain causes them to loose ground in the East.
-Japan gains more access to ports in Russia. Fleets gathered in the North combine and assault the Hawaiian islands. They are engaged by US forces and both take equal naval loses, but Japan's focus on heavy battleships aswell as air power prevail. The US Navy elements in Australia is forced to retreat to support the engagements up North
-Japan captures more territory in India and in surrounding countries

-India surrenders to the Empire of Japan. German and Japanese naval units in the Indian Ocean have access to Indian ports
-The United Kingdom is almost entirely captured
-Russia continues to recapture lost ground. Russian navy as reformed thanks to regaining access to her ports in the Baltic Sea
-Russia continues to loose ground in China and in East Russia, but suffer less loses as a result of retreating
-South African and Commonwealth troops reinforce South Africa after hearing of an impending attack on the country. A small combine of Allied naval units try to stop sea invasion of the country but fail due to lack of co-ordination of having combined fleets.
-Japan gains more ground in Australia now that US navy fleets have retreated
-Conscription for Japanese boys between the ages of 14-30 begins. Conscription focuses more on infantry and aviation roles. At this stage, Japan's navy has taken heavy losses, but still stands strong. Girls at the age 14 to 20 are allowed to join naval and aviation academies in Japan. Japan trains it's naval and aviation officers well and doesn't have to rely on superior numbers to best the US
-Japan captures the Hawaiian islands and gains access to naval ports there.

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Alea iacta est.

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«A sea is not a barrier, a sea is a road, and those who try to use the sea as an instrument of isolation soon realize their foe has already put the sea into his own service.». - Alfred Thayer Mahan.

Wel looking forward how this Au is gone develept. But i fore see one big problem the German Army could not fight the Western Allied and Rusian and have troops in Africa at the same time.

I think you have to keep the real life part of the begin of the war. So a fast victoty in the west knokking out Holland, Belgium and France. And than you could invade England witch at that moment did not have a army to fight with as most of it equiptment stayed behind in France. And secured the Mediterranean by invding Malta and Gibralta. This would force the Royal navy to leave it.

And this way the way to the east would be open, that way you coud invade Rusiafrom two sides and take the oil field wich needed the germans for ther war in a few monds.

And with Japan joining the war with Russia they would not be abel to send reinforcement to ther western front so that way you could move futher in the country as the Germans did in real

And wen having control over the Mediterranean maby Spain would have joined the Axis as thanks for the German help in ther civial war.

Ohh and pleace let that little corporal dont be the leader of the German Army

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Best Regards,
Aart.

Projects:

The Kingdom of Rochfort in FD

Thanks! I'll take that into account! I've been watching videos on YouTube about how the axis could've one the war and making them correct their mistakes in this AU.

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The Axis looses the moment that someone gets the MAUD report out of Lyman Briggs' safe (Lyman Briggs was the head of the Uranium committee at the time, and getting the report out of his desk happened when Mark Oliphant started yelling at anyone who would listen in 1941). Prior to that, (Specifically the Einstein Letter) the US idea of an atomic bomb was something that would fit on a ship, not dropped out of a plane. So, no way this gets to 1958.
No. The Germans did not have the ability to move troops to the British Isles in WW2, and even if they did, there were plenty of forces still in the UK to stop an invasion - even if the BEF is lost on the continent.

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𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐇𝐍𝐄𝐓- 𝑻𝒐 𝑪𝒐𝒈𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝑺𝒐𝒍𝒗𝒆

I'm going to make the US fail in their attempts to create the atomic bomb, and thus they will have to continue to fight Japan via conventional methods.

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How? The US had multiple methods of enrichment, two types of nuclear material, and two fundamentally different bomb designs.
Japan was hidiously vulnerable to submarine warfare. As an island nation with no major indigenous energy sources, they eventually starve as they get cut off from the outside world.

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𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐇𝐍𝐄𝐓- 𝑻𝒐 𝑪𝒐𝒈𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝑺𝒐𝒍𝒗𝒆

I'm going to expand on the idea of Japan and Germany preparing for the war and combating less experienced soldiers. Japan will have had some extra time to spy on the US and prepare themselves accordingly by focusing on building more aircraft carriers, training more experienced fighter pilots and generally just building more warships to fight against the powerful US navy.

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How? Japan was burning both ends of the proverbial candle well before they attacked Pearl Harbour. They simply didn't have the resources, monetary, materially and manpower wise. That's why they attacked the US in the first place, to force the US to the negotiating table and give them breathing room to consolidate their gains in the Pacific.

Germany was arguably in an even worse situation with the Nazis busily turning a strong recovering economy in to a burning wreck, hence why they started to invade everyone around them.

Both countries needed to loot neighbouring economies to support their ambitions.

This is one of the key reasons why we ended up with the war in the first place.

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“Close” only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and tactical nuclear weapons.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error

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