Shipbucket

If you want to name your ship "dragon" then it be just "Drache", without the "n". And if you have a ship with that name, what jappened to the original "Drache", the artillery training ship of pre-WW1-days?

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"what jappened to the original "Drache", the artillery training ship of pre-WW1-days?"

Unfortunately it disappeared into the mists of someone elses AU. Your drawing is fine, but useless as a Destroyer Leader.

I wanted a strong name for the Destroyer Leader that would have led the Jaguar/Iltis type torpedo boats. I put Dragon into the translator, and Drachen was what it spat out the other side.

Yep, that's how I got Drachenodem Atem, if I recall. Yay google translate!

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Hello everyone

@ Krakatoa: As long as you are at it - please type 'Westphalia' into the Google translator as well. The english word for the Province of Westfalen is a very unlikely name for a german warship

Greetings
GD

Well i never wanted to imply that "my" Drache would make a good Destroyer. I just wanted to point out that now there are two ships with the same name. Although this shouldn't be much of a problem, the Germans were big on renaming ships, shiuld the name be needed: the old ironclads Deutschland and Kaiser were renamed Jupiter and Uranus to give their names to new battleships and in a smaller example the radio testing ship Grille was renamed Welle to give her name to the now more famous state yacht.

Come to think of it, Pommern might be a more suitable name than Westfalen, the Navy post-WW1 was big on honouring sunk ships.

But this is your topic after all, so forgive my rambling, I didn't mean to intrude. Your drawings are great andvthe topic is interesting, so please continue.

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Thanks for your help with naming conventions guys. I had not given it much thought, and I truly had thought that Westphalia was the German name for the province rather than the real Westfalen. Some people should not be let loose with out a white stick and a decent translator. I will go through and rename the ships to Drache and ? a good strong German Capital ship name. Maybe Zähringen?? would be a fitting name.

Hello Krakatoa

Nazi Germany named all capital ships for historic personalities; the imperial battleship naming conventions were apparently abandoned for new construction. Although there are no firm documents (names were usually not chosen at the beginning of construction), 'Friedrich der Grosse', 'Grosser Kurfürst', 'Barbarossa' or 'Karl der Grosse' are probable in my view; 'Hindenburg' probably less so and 'Grossdeutschland' certainly not ('Deutschland' was re-named for a reason). Hitler himself suggested 'Götz von Berlichingen' for 'H', a rather unimportant figure of the German Peasant Wars in the 1520s. This would make other personalities from that era possible as well. 'Florian Geyer' and 'Frundsberg' for instance had SS divisions named for them, so why not ships too.

If you plan to do the P-class too, these would very probably have recycled large cruiser names from the first world war - 'Derfflinger', 'Goeben', 'Moltke', 'Von der Tann', 'Yorck',
or 'Mackensen'. For light cruisers, there were lots of names of German cruisers which were lost in the first world war: 'Magdeburg', 'Breslau', 'Dresden', 'Bremen', 'Wiesbaden',
'Mainz', 'Rostock' or 'Elbing'. Both naming lines would follow an already established tradition.

Hope this helps

Greetings
GD

Hi GD,

Was the loss of the Magdeburg and her codebooks known by the Germans by that point? If so, perhaps not the most auspicious name to use...

Cheers,
Ad

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After a bit of research I chose the name ' Teiwaz ' which is apparently the North Germanic name for the 'God of war' for the battleship. May their gods be stronger than their opponents.

I have been through and renamed everything as suggested.


Garlicdesign,

You have already done a nice Cruiser P (Goeben 1944) with the mixed armament of 5.9/4.1" guns.
Would you think there is enough growth room if I replace the two twin centreline 5.9" with twin 5", to replace the triple 11" with the triple 13.8" I rearm one of my versions of Scharnhorst with?
And of course a request to use your drawing as the basis for a dual purpose conversion please.

The cruiser P concept was all about commerce raiding. The ships were to be advanced Admiral Scheer types with 6x11" and various smaller weaponry with a very high speed of 34-35 knots provided by diesel engines. 4.7" side armour and 3.9" of deck armour. This was the basic design right through to December 1939. The Battle of the River Plate, changed the design radically. From 20,000 tons standard, the design went out to 25,000 ton standard. The length of 737 feet was retained but the breadth was increased from 84 feet to 95 feet. The same 165,000bhp diesel plant was retained but the speed reduced to 32 knots. The bigger beam allowed for an increase in armament from the 6x11" up to 6x13.8". The bigger guns took the ships firmly into the battlecruiser range. A more lavish armour scheme to make the ships 'cruiser proof', Side armour increased to 5.9" while the deck armour remained the same at 3.9". Laid down in 1940 the ships were due to be completed in 1943-44. The original order for 12 was reduced to 8 prior to laying down, a further four were canceled within six months. Of the final four only one was completed, the other three being bombed at various stages of construction and scrapped in situ.



The final armament consisted of 6x13.8", 16x5", 4x55mm, 20x40mm, 40x20mm, 6x21" torpedoe tubes. 3 aircraft, one catapult. The 55mm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58, was the first of the new twin mountings built for the navy(http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_55_Gerat58.htm), The Goeben had the first two experimental mountings fitted just prior to its transfer to Norwegian waters in 1944.