Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 20 of 38  [ 378 posts ]  Go to page « 118 19 20 21 2238 »
Author Message
Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 1st, 2016, 9:16 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1071
Joined: December 26th, 2012, 9:36 am
Location: Germany
Hello everyone!

@ace: Thanks for the feedback. As for the bridge shape, existing plans and photographs of the real Callenburgh/Hiddes-class all show the bridge to have that height, with forward vision from the portholes blocked by the radar on the 40mm mount. As designed, the radar seems not to have been part of the 40mm mounts, but the pictures that show the radar also still show the aft director. Thus, the radar on the Zoutman is a retrofit, with the HA director left in place. The bridge had an open upper level, which was quite cramped forward where the LA director was mounted in a tub. The forward part of the bridge was quite streamlined; my interpretation takes stramlining just a small step further.
http://www.modelbouwtekeningen.nl/10110 ... weers-1941
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cf ... =103008741
http://www.vriendenkring-mmi.nl/index_b ... ers-2.html

But now to something completely different:


13. Dutch prizes part 2: Claus van Beveren
The Netherlands had ordered four modern superdreadnoughts in 1913, one from Krupp Germania in Kiel, the other three to a German design from domestic yards. The German-built ship was canceled and broken up in 1914, and one of the three Dutch-built units was also axed during the first world war, but construction of the other two proceeded slowly, till both were commissioned in the early twenties under the names Willem de Zwijger (named for Prince William 'the Silent' of Orange) and Vrijheid (Freedom). They were hybrids between true battleships and battlecruisers, having relatively thin vertical protection (250mm), but high speed (24 knots) and powerful armament (eight 356mm/50 Bofors guns, sixteen 150mm/45 Krupp Guns and twelve 75mm/50 Cockerill guns). As commissioned, they had two high tripod masts fore and aft; with their flush-decked hull with a very pronounced sheer forward, they clearly resembled contemporary German battlecruisers:

[ img ]

In service, the aft fire control position was nearly always covered in smoke from the aft funnel and pretty useless. The turbines, which were imported from Sweden in Willem de Zwijger and from Switzerland in Vrijheid, were another source of trouble, and the boilers, locally made in the Netherlands from low-quality wartime production material, were prone to corrosion. Both ships were mechanically unreliable and needed much maintenance, with Vrijheid's Zoelly turbines being even worse than Zwijger's de Laval turbines. A major modernization effort launched in 1929 eliminated both tripods in favour of a heavy tube mast forward; the superstructure was much enlarged to accomodate modern command, communications and fire control gear (the latter was however not yet available). The ships were also completely re-engined, with new Yarrow-Werkspoor boilers and license-built Brown-Curtis turbines. The forefunnel was moved aft, and the aft funnel was eliminated entirely. The number of 75mm guns was cut to eight, but all eight received HA mounts, and HA rangefinders were fitted for the first time. Two airplanes were carried, but no catapults. After this modernization, Vrijheid looked like this:

[ img ]

Like the heavy cruisers Amsterdam and Rotterdam, the battleships were alternately deployed to the Netherlands East Indies for two-year periods. They had their new fire-control gear installed in their first R&R in 1933 and 1935, respectively, and the airplanes were swapped for a more modern type. In 1938, a further major refit was authorized. All 150/45 and 75/50 guns were landed, and eight 150/55 Bofors guns in twin turrets and eight 105/50 Bofors HA guns, also in twin mounts, were installed. Sixteen 40mm Bofors autocannons in eight twin mounts completed the flak equipment. Two catapults were mounted amidships in a similar way as originally planned on the totally modernized Italian battleships, with the turntable way aft and the forward part swiveling outboards on retractable rails. This refit was implemented on Willem de Zwijger in 1937 through 1938, and she returned to Java in January 1939.

[ img ]

When the Japanese invaded the Dutch East Indies, Willem de Zwijger became flagship of the ABDA force, consisting of her, the Australian battlecruiser Tiger, and a total of eleven cruisers - five heavy and six light - from four Nations (Netherlands, USA, India and Australia). The Japanese and Kokoans had the Japanese battleship Mutsu, the Kokoan battlecruiser Konishi plus eight heavy cruisers (four Japanese and four Kokoan) and five light cruisers (one Japanese and four Kokoan). Neither side had significant carrier support. When these fleets met in the battle of the Java Sea, the Axis quite effortlessly gained the upper hand; it was the first Allied experience at the receiving end of Japan's deadly 609mm Long Lance torpedoes, and it proved to be painful. Seven of eleven allied cruisers were sunk, among them all four Dutch ships, and Willem de Zwijger was heavily damaged by gunfire from Mutsu. She would certainly have perished, but Mutsu had to come to the aid of the severely distressed Haguro, which was under fire from HMAS Tiger, and Willem de Zwijger could limp away. She was brought to the USA in July 1942, but repairing her had no great priority, and it took the Americans till December of that year to get started. They did a thorough job, however, and reconstructed her along the lines of USS Tennessee, California and West Virginia. She retained her still relatively new engines, but had her whole superstructure razed and replaced with an all-new US style superstructure with the latest fire-control and radar gear. Eight 127mm DP twin turrets and twelve 40mm Bofors quad mounts replaced the old secondary and anti-air armament. Horizontal armour was strenghtened to a total of 140mm on two decks, and the turrets and magazines also received massive additional armour. The hull was bulged to restore flotation and improve underwater protection, and speed dropped from 24 to 21 knots. When Willem de Zwijger returned to service in April 1944, she looked like this; she carried a Northrop N3PB aircraft at that time:

[ img ]

The battleship deployed to European waters and was attached to the British Home Fleet; on two abortive sorties in mid-1944 she both times nearly came into shooting range of her sister, which served on the opposite side. She provided fire support in September 1944 for the allied Invasion in Normandy, then returned to Northern waters and escorted three convoys to Arkhangelsk; at that time, the Germans no longer tried to intercept these. Willem de Zwijger was present at the liberation of Rotterdam in July 1945 and belonged to the allied fleet that accepted the surrender of the last intact German fleet unit at Copenhagen in October 1945. After VE day, she returned to the Far East via New York and Panama. She came too late for Leyte, but operated off Okinawa and shot down a dozen Japanese airplanes, receiving a Kamikaze hit aft that wrecked her catapult and crane and nearly broke her stern off. By the time she was repaired, the war was nearly over; she was at Tokyo Bay for the Japanese surrender, then returned to the Netherlands. She deployed back to Java in 1947, but was not actively employed against the Indonesian independence movement and eventually returned to the Netherlands, where she paid off into reserve in 1950. She never was commissioned again for budgetary reasons and went to the breakers in 1958.

Her sister Vrijheid was docked at Amsterdam in February 1939 to receive the same refit. When the Netherlands were occupied, work was well advanced; the new secondary barbettes were already installed. The ship was to be blown up, but German special forces infiltrated the dockyard, overwhelmed the caretaker crew and disabled the demolition charges. After a German engineer team surveyed the ship, it was determined that it could be brought into German service within 18 months, and she was towed to Bremen for refit in September 1940. She received German 150/55 secondaries and 105/65 heavy AA guns in lieu of the originally planned Swedish guns, a single catapult instead of the planned twin catapult arrangement and the pre-fabricated tube mast that was originally planned for a refit of Admiral Graf Spee, which eventually never occurred. German light AA, fire control gear and radar was installed. Her hull, which had an icebreaker bow, received additional ice strengthening. When the refit was completed in August 1942, five months behind schedule, she carried 16 semi-automatic 37mm guns and 36 20mm guns in seven quad and eight single mounts. She was named Claus von Bevern, after the 17th century Dutch naval mercenary Cornelis Claes van Beveren, who was the first commander in chief of the Elector of Brandenburg's fleet; a trials ship bearing that name had recently been mined and sunk in the Skagerrak. After working up in the Baltic, the Bevern deployed to Norway, never to return. Upon arrival in Trondheim, she looked like this:

[ img ]

After a turbulent time in Norway (see history post), she was eventually sunk by British airplanes during her return to Germany in December 1944.

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on March 2nd, 2016, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
KHT
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 1st, 2016, 9:40 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1396
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 12:49 pm
They all look particularly attractive. Very nice backstorys too.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 1st, 2016, 9:46 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 7510
Joined: July 28th, 2010, 12:25 pm
Location: the netherlands
with the 40mm mounting, the bridge being there seems not to be a problem. with a full gun mount, this might become an issue though, those being higher, wider and more solid.
the director shown on the destroyers must be the main gun director (just in front of the mast) aft I cannot find the director. (you mean the thing on the platform with the aft 40mm? I think that is the auxillary steering gear) the streamlining on the callenburgh seems to have been there, but remains 2 dimensional (some sort of tub with an sloped roof on top) instead of the full 3 dimensional streamlined shape you took, which is IMO a postwar feature (and even then, only on the 1947 destroyers)
if your open bridge is similar to that of the isaac sweers, I agree that it works.

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
BB1987
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 1st, 2016, 9:56 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2818
Joined: May 23rd, 2012, 1:01 pm
Location: Rome - Italy
One ship class, three different nations building style. And you make it look like it's easy to swittch between them.
Exellent work.

_________________
My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
erik_t
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 1st, 2016, 10:11 pm
Offline
Posts: 2936
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 11:38 pm
Location: Midwest US
I love the evolution of this design.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 7:45 am
Offline
Posts: 3907
Joined: November 17th, 2010, 8:03 am
Location: Corinth, MS USA
Contact: YouTube
Awesome job! Really like the 1944 Willem de Zwijger design!

_________________
[ img ]
MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Cybermax
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 4:16 pm
Offline
Posts: 331
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 5:41 pm
Wow quite a fascinating evolution for that ship, looks great.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
pegasus206
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 6:33 pm
Offline
Posts: 930
Joined: October 17th, 2013, 5:22 pm
Location: Focsani, Romania
Great looking ships and very nice backstory. :D ;)

_________________
___________________________________________

Best Regards,
Aart.

Projects:

The Kingdom of Rochfort in FD


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 6:44 pm
Offline
Posts: 2504
Joined: July 1st, 2014, 12:20 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact: Website
"Vertical armour was strenghtened to a total of 140mm on two decks" = should be horizontal armour.

The drawings and the stories go together well. Having one on each side of the war did give you the chance to try them out against each other. It must have been a powerful temptation to resist.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
maomatic
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: Other People's shipsPosted: March 2nd, 2016, 9:21 pm
Offline
Posts: 493
Joined: February 20th, 2014, 7:46 pm
Location: Germany
Great drawings, indeed!

Some very minor nitpicks on the "Claus van Bevern", if I may:

- You mounted a 20mm MG C/29 (=Oerlikon) next to the most forward searchlight. This seems a bit odd, since the rest of the 20mm's are of the C/30/38-family and use - as far as I know - different ammunition. (C/30 = 20x138mm & C/29 =20x110mm)
- The railing is missing on the 20mm underneath turret "Caesar".
- A FuMO-27 might be a better choice in 1943.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 20 of 38  [ 378 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs” | Go to page « 118 19 20 21 2238 »

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]