Shipbucket

Not sure, aircraft are improving very fast but even in 1940/41 surface forces (BBs) dominated major engagements of the war in the Mediterranean. The Cavours are weak but they would have done much better v the French (the assumed enemy) than they did v RN historically.
I would think Monitors are worth it for fighting in Baltic v Poland or USSR (or even a incursion by a NM or RN light force) ?

The problem is, battleships are nice peacetime status symbols and work v many different potential opponents, OTL the KM ended up fighting the hardest potential opponent (RN+ allies). The only alternatives for attacking the UK is U boats (will set off way to many alarms in London, due to WWI USW) or aircraft (can't due to Luftwaffe) what do you build ? (assuming you don't try to be nice and peaceful)

How did the Cavours fare against the HMS Illustrious? You do have a good point, but those who were war-gaming the naval war were more than suspicious that the battleship was a huge waste of resources. Fairey Swordfish were little better than American SB-2s featured in the movie King Kong. The pre-cog writing was there to see in history in the splashes and near misses that stove in Ostfreisland. I know that hindsight is quite unjustified and that existing battleships (true battleships) still had their place because they were there and you needed to do something with the monsters. Gunfire support?

The Germans don't have the money, time, or resources to put into it. A battleship=panzer division or an air wing. That's 20 U-boats or maybe 60 seaplane bombers. The Tirpitz was a very expensive floating target. I would argue the British paid too much attention to it.

Cruisers, disguised raiders/tenders and giant seaplane bombers. The fighters of the era would not be able to handle something like a German version of the Emily. How devastating would a German version of an Emily be?

The PBYs with 1/3 the range and 1/2 the payload were devastating as attack planes and that against an enemy who had the best naval fighter force at the time. They did that flying out of undeveloped harbors with nothing but a tender and a tanker in 42-43..

And as it turns out, the RN never really handled the Condors and maritime Ju 88s in the Atlantic until they resorted to CAMM merchant escorts, aircraft carriers and finally created a decent FAA fighter force. That was late 43 after the U-boat defeat.

And I would have risked a U-boat buildup. Baltic seapower was Luftwaffe. The German PDNs were just incidentals in the bomber blitz.

Oh no, I feel another challenge coming on. Or have we already had one? Can't remember - its one of those old age things.

The only thing that was limited by the Versailles Treaty was weight. 10,000 tons +- 2-4,000 tons. The guns could be any size the Germans wished to place aboard as shown by DG_Alphas superlative Germany - Interwar Capital Ship Proposals, thread.

Thanks guys for the replies - it is fascinating to me what can and can't work (from a practical perspective) when you get down to the nitty gritty.
My understanding from a thread I had on the Alternate History website was that the short length and slow speed of the Deutschlands made them unsuitable as carrier conversions. Is this correct, or could something be worked out?

PS: a challenge would be awesome, although I am not sure that I am at a level ready to take part though.
PPS: Krakatoa, where in NZ are you? I'm in Auckland.

Something could be worked out. You need a 100 meter takeoff run.

And no, the Germans could not do it. They didn't know enough about carrier operations in general to design a proper conversion.

Until the Versailles treaty becomes a dead letter in the late 1930's, Germany is forbidden by the VT to have any Naval Air Service.

for me personally, the only thing with an Battleship in WW2 for me is:

- Shore bombardment against heavily armored target. rest could be don by 5"-8" cruisers.
- Be a massive AA platform, that can give quit heavy AA cover, during escort. (see Iowa class)
- Holding up a large portion of the enemy/allied unit, ready to defend/fight of this Battleship. (for example Tirpitz, UK had to have a couple of it larger unit close of it, in case she went on a raid. units that would have been more valuable in other places.)

Well, I couldn't resist...

Warning: Quick & Dirty / Just for fun...



Notes:

• -The main hull is still the one from Hannover, because I haven't started Schleswig-Holstein yet (Might only be noticable in the details, but stil...)
  -The main guns are the one introduced here one page 1
  -Furashita's drawing also seems to have a modified aft, I skipped that because, well... quick an dirty...
  -The secondaries are five 88mm twins
  -The forward superstructure is copied from Leipzig (and slightly modified), becasue I have that one available...
  -The funnel and aft superstructure is completely custom
  -the crane is form Nürnberg (and modified with a searchlight platform). I tried to put the cranes from Königsberg on it (as indicated on the Furashita drawing), but they didn't fit scale-wise (the were much higher than the funnel). Could be my scaling, I just resized the drawing that it fitted with the main turret size and distance between them.

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Any help and source material is always welcome.

Good work DG_Alpha,

my apologies for even mentioning it to you.

It may be quick and dirty and may be just for fun, but it looks good!

Admiral Furashita had some crazy ideas, but always just inside the sanity zone to make you think "yeah, that might work."
This design, even though we know isn't really workable in the true sense of a plausible actual conversion, looks the part and has some AU use. I like it.

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English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft