Thiaria: Other People's ships

simply fantastic! Considering how much I've turned around those boats in my AUs private development periods, Its nice to see others take on the same subject. Well done. are there Any other german torpedo vessels to be expected?

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

Great work, these are great additions.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

Awesome boats, I like it!

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Hello again... and on it goes:

6. Germany's first heavy cruiser design, built in the Netherlands: The Rotterdam-class
One of the earliest preliminary design studies for a 10.000 ton capital ship to replace Germany's remaining pre-dreadnoughts called for a classical treaty cruiser with eight 210mm guns; an improved version of this type was later built as the Admiral Scheer-class. During the mid-twenties, the Dutch, who had pleaded to provide a credible defensive force for their east Indies possessions to the British and the US in exchange against guarantees from these powers to coming to their aid in case of a Japanese attack, were looking for an affordable heavy cruiser design to be license-built at De Schelde in Flushing and Fijenoord in Rotterdam. Germany was still banned from the international arms market, but Blohm&Voss set up a subsidiary company in Rotterdam, which eventually won the contract by downscaling the existing I/10 design to 9.500 tons and accepting Bofors guns as main armament (Vickers had tried to sell a modified County-class to the Dutch, but wanted to supply the guns itself). The ships were laid down in 1925 and 1926 and completed in 1928 and 1931, respectively, the delay being a result of the Great Depression. They were named Amsterdam and Rotterdam. They carried eight very powerful 203mm guns, but only scant protection and a bare-bones secondary armament of seven 75mm guns and six 533mm torpedoes. Propulsion was provided by two sets of Parsons turbines with six boilers and 60.000hp plus two MAN cruising diesels with 13.500hp; top speed was 32 knots. Aviation facilities were not part of the design, but the necessary deck space was provided. At the time of completion, they looked like this:

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Both alternated with deployments to the East Indies; during their calls to their home ports in the Netherlands, they were progressively modernized. They received airplanes in 1933 and 1935, exchanged four of their seven 75mm guns with 40mm Bofors twins in 1936 and 1937, and swapped their remaining 75mm guns for Bofors 105mm twin heavy AA mounts in 1938 and 1940, respectively, at that time also receiving a completely reworked fire control suite. Rotterdam was in the Far East when the German attack began, and as Amsterdam, who had just completed her latest modernization, was unlikely to do any good against the Germans, she was deployed to the NEI as well. She arrived in Batavia in July 1940 after an adventurous journey around the Cape of Good Hope and an encounter with the Thiarian cruisers LT Ogleidhras and Spleodar. Although the Dutch government in exile had declared war on all nations currently at war with Great Britain, the Thiarians misidentified Amsterdam as a German and let her proceed. In Batavia, both had little to do till the Japanese-Kokoan offensive hit them. Both perished in the battle of the Java Sea; Amsterdam was sunk by four 609mm torpedoes from Japanese destroyers while Rotterdam succumbed to gunfire from the Kokoan cruisers Senjo and Tenji, but not after dealing five 203mm hits to Tenji in return.

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PS: Yes Golly there are more German AU destroyers and torpedo boats in the pipeline, maybe even some real never-built ones as 'fallout'. Actually, I'm going to mutilate most large German surface ship classes to some extent.

Greetings
GD

Awesome!

To the mods: Can we have a special title of 'Camo Master' awarded to GD for these awesome schemes?

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

a few comments:
- De Schelde has not ever build or maintained carriers: the locks which had to be crossed to get to their docks and slibways was too small for them IIRC. the yards for cruisers would be IIRC rotterdam (RDM and Wilton Feijenoord) and the NSDM in Amsterdam (I would have to look that up to be certain)
- I am not certain the names Amsterdam and Rotterdam match the names of the cruisers at the time, any east indies islands that were free? was zeven provincien and eendracht taken?
- the dutch, at least on the later 1047, actually had better torpedo protection requirements then the germans had themselves...... I am not certain that scant protection matches that figure.
- Were the 75mm guns meant to be dual purpose? I would expect some AA on a 1930 design, as certainly was the case in the 1935 'De Ruyter'
- I am REALLY uncertain about the diesels over an proven steam powerplant?
- no aircraft as build seems weird, as the 1928 admiralen class and the 1935 de ruyter class both had aircraft on board or at least the ability to do so.
- do I spot some 40mm No6 mountings on your 1942 refit? those were postwar mountings, the No 3 and No 4 mountings shown here were used before that (the No4 became well known as hazemeijer) http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Flak_bofors40.htm
- while the Java Class of 1926 received new fire control in 1937/1938 (similar to that of the 1935 De Ruyter) I am not certain your fire control equipment adds anything new to your vessel. instead, I would expect an a lot larger focus on AA directors such as the 1936 40mm director also found on the dutch parts sheet.

nice drawing though, and interesting, just want to discuss and improve it a bit if I may:P

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Nice work GD, they look really nice. And thanks for the Senjo class cameo

Hello everyone, hello Ace

Thanks, that was quick!

acelanceloet wrote:

Concerning your remarks:
1. Breyer states De Schelde as one of the yards capable of building the 1047 BCs, so I saw no problem there. If he was wrong, I can always change the yard.
2. Neither name is completely unknown for a Dutch warship. I figured heavy cruisers would receive different names than light ones; if there is a Dutch naming convention that rules these out, let me know, they can be changed.
3. All 1920s heavy cruisers had scant protection, anywhere. A really balanced heavy cruiser would have been anachronistic for 1926. The first was the Italian Zara-class, and that one was intentionally beyond the 10.000-ton limit, something I figure the Dutch government would not do. I might have omitted one turret, but trading firepower or speed for protection was a later tendency.
4. Yes, they were DP
5. It's a german off-the-shelf design featuring German particularities; without any experience in the design of such cruisers whatsoever, it seemed logical to me that very broad and somewhat loose specifications were issued by the Dutch.
6. Ordering the ship bare-bones to save cost and refitting crucial equipment later is a time-proven way of military procurement, especially in a country that was - by the standards of the time - even more reluctant than most to spend big money for the military. As the cruisers are an off-the-shelf design coming from a country where military aviation was wholly forbidden, it also seemed logical they initially had no airplanes, but ample space to add them. Having no catapults for airplanes was also typical for other Dutch ships (Java and Sumatra).
7.+8. Got me there, drawing is changed. The aft main director was not really needed anyway, as the one atop the mast can cover the rear arc. I had the Bofors guns from the swedish parts sheet, I have to admit, because somewhere in the back of my head I thought the Dutch one only contained postwar stuff.

Greetings
GD

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