I like them both but each is huge with rather thin armor. I see these as specialized raiders and escorts but the thin armor means their captain's need to be careful when engaging other surface ships.
Given that the real-life Sverdlov-class (which the Mikhail is based off of) has a similar scheme...
For Kunitzov I would replace the twin 37mm with quad 45mm, both historical and take up less deck space.
45mm AA autocannon? I never
heard of such anti-air autocannon in the Russian inventory before, they either used 57, 37, or 23mm autocannons with the occasional machinegun grouping.
Also, neat little quick and dirty rule with carriers that someone found:
"Carriers.
Spring Style is designed for ships armed
primarily with guns, but carriers become important from the end of World War I on. Here is a method for simming carriers:
Design the ship as you normally would. Put in as much
miscellaneous weight" as you can - that will usually
determine how big an airgroup your CV can carry. Now,
get out your pocket calculator. You'll make two pretty simple calculations, each of which gives a possible airgroup limit.
1) Take the square root of miscellaneous weight; e.g., if miscellaneous weight is 10,000 tons, the eight-based limit for your carrier is 100 aircraft. (In addition, allow at least 25 tons per aircraft, i.e., if miscellaneous weight is just 100 tons, your ship can carry 4 planes, not 10.)
2) Multiply length x beam (both waterline) and divide by 750; e.g., if your CV is 900 ft x 100 ft, the space limit is 120 aircraft.
For the metric gang, divide by 70 instead; if your CV is 280 metres x 30 metres, the size limit is also 120 aircraft.
Use waterline dimensions (if available), NOT flight deck dimensions; they can vary a lot more, and we want a consistant rule.
Your carrier's airgroup is whichever number is LOWER.
So in the example above, your CV has an airgroup of 100
aircraft. (That is for WW II or earlier planes. For postwar CVs with jets, I'd estimate about 2/3 of the airgroup calculated by this method.) Usually, the weight rule gives a lower number of planes and thus sets the limit; the size limit will usually apply to CVEs converted from merchant ships with a great deal of miscellaneous weight.
Use a word processor, etc., to adjust your ship report. I list the air group above guns, since it is obviously a carrier's main armament!
Conversions: If you convert a battlecruiser, etc., to a CV, follow the same basic procedure. Start with the original ship, modify main guns, armor, etc., put in miscellaneous weight (i.e., the flight deck), and there is your carrier.
Note: This rule works pretty well for American and Japanese carriers. British-type carriers with armored flight decks may require a lower airgroup limit, perhaps 2/3 the number generated by this rule."
Using above 'cheat', here is a carrier:
Admiral Kuznetsov, Imperial Russia Light Carrier laid down 1950
Displacement:
18,426 t light; 19,966 t standard; 22,300 t normal; 24,168 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(721.78 ft / 656.17 ft) x 78.74 ft x (19.69 / 21.13 ft)
(220.00 m / 200.00 m) x 24.00 m x (6.00 / 6.44 m)
Armament:
42- Assorted Jet and Rotary Wing Aircraft with 25 tons alloted ammunition each
24 - 5.12" / 130 mm 60.0 cal guns - 80.00lbs / 36.29kg shells, 500 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
48 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 3.50lbs / 1.59kg shells, 6,000 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
12 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,088 lbs / 947 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 10.65 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: 1.00" / 25 mm 229.64 ft / 69.99 m 10.65 ft / 3.25 m
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
8.00" / 203 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 12.92 ft / 3.94 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 50.00 ft / 15.24 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 3.00" / 76 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors, plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 111,645 shp / 83,287 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,202 tons
Complement:
912 - 1,186
Cost:
£9.892 million / $39.569 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 813 tons, 3.6 %
- Guns: 813 tons, 3.6 %
Armour: 5,775 tons, 25.9 %
- Belts: 1,102 tons, 4.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,631 tons, 7.3 %
- Armament: 415 tons, 1.9 %
- Armour Deck: 2,525 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Towers: 102 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,671 tons, 12.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,168 tons, 23.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,874 tons, 17.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 4,000 tons, 17.9 %
- On freeboard deck: 4,000 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
58,041 lbs / 26,327 Kg = 865.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 10.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.32
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.767 / 0.775
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.32 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 45.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 37.73 ft / 11.50 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Average freeboard: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 262.8 %
Waterplane Area: 45,124 Square feet or 4,192 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 550 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.47
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
An early jet light carrier, not as impressive as a genuine fleet or super carrier but gets the job done.
____
Mikhail Kutuzov, Imperial Russia Escort Cruiser laid down 1950
Displacement:
17,721 t light; 20,153 t standard; 22,100 t normal; 23,658 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(722.23 ft / 705.38 ft) x 85.30 ft x (23.79 / 25.04 ft)
(220.14 m / 215.00 m) x 26.00 m x (7.25 / 7.63 m)
Armament:
12 - 7.87" / 200 mm 60.0 cal guns - 300.01lbs / 136.08kg shells, 400 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1950 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
20 - 3.94" / 100 mm 60.0 cal guns - 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 1,000 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
68 - 1.77" / 45.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 3.05lbs / 1.38kg shells, 6,000 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
16 x 2 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,707 lbs / 2,135 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 30.0" / 762 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 3.012 t each, 18.072 t total
In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
Main DC/AS Mortars
4 - 661.39 lbs / 300.00 kg trainable AS Mortars + 40 reloads - 12.992 t total
2nd DC/AS Mortars
20 - 165.35 lbs / 75.00 kg ahead throwing AS Mortars + 400 reloads - 31.003 t total
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 458.50 ft / 139.75 m 11.08 ft / 3.38 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 246.86 ft / 75.24 m 11.08 ft / 3.38 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 458.50 ft / 139.75 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
5.00" / 127 mm 458.50 ft / 139.75 m 21.21 ft / 6.46 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.00 ft / 19.81 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 5.00" / 127 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 116,297 shp / 86,758 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,505 tons
Complement:
906 - 1,178
Cost:
£11.961 million / $47.844 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,226 tons, 10.1 %
- Guns: 2,001 tons, 9.1 %
- Weapons: 226 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 6,619 tons, 29.9 %
- Belts: 2,146 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,799 tons, 8.1 %
- Armament: 888 tons, 4.0 %
- Armour Deck: 1,616 tons, 7.3 %
- Conning Towers: 170 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,782 tons, 12.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,593 tons, 25.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,379 tons, 19.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.3 %
- Hull below water: 100 tons
- On freeboard deck: 200 tons
- Above deck: 200 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,409 lbs / 17,876 Kg = 161.4 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.540 / 0.549
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.63 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.08 ft / 0.94 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.2 %
Waterplane Area: 43,319 Square feet or 4,024 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.39
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
The improved version, but I'm holding reservations with the 45mm guns.
____
Williams, United Nations Alliance Light Destroyer laid down 1950
Displacement:
3,095 t light; 3,429 t standard; 3,800 t normal; 4,097 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(442.90 ft / 426.51 ft) x 65.62 ft x (15.58 / 16.20 ft)
(135.00 m / 130.00 m) x 20.00 m x (4.75 / 4.94 m)
Armament:
4 - 5.00" / 127 mm 65.0 cal guns - 80.00lbs / 36.29kg shells, 400 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 7.00lbs / 3.18kg shells, 4,000 per gun
Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1950 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 404 lbs / 183 kg
Main Torpedoes
7 - 25.0" / 635 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 2.165 t each, 15.155 t total
In 1 sets of deck mounted centre rotating tubes
Main DC/AS Mortars
4 - 300.00 lbs / 136.08 kg trainable AS Mortars + 25 reloads - 3.884 t total
2nd DC/AS Mortars
12 - 100.00 lbs / 45.36 kg ahead throwing AS Mortars + 50 reloads - 2.768 t total
Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 2.00" / 51 mm, Aft 2.00" / 51 mm
Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 44,242 shp / 33,005 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 668 tons
Complement:
241 - 314
Cost:
£2.403 million / $9.611 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 260 tons, 6.8 %
- Guns: 182 tons, 4.8 %
- Weapons: 77 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 669 tons, 17.6 %
- Armament: 177 tons, 4.6 %
- Armour Deck: 471 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Towers: 21 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 1,058 tons, 27.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 979 tons, 25.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 705 tons, 18.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 3.4 %
- On freeboard deck: 30 tons
- Above deck: 100 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,193 lbs / 1,448 Kg = 51.1 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.43
Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.09
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.305 / 0.316
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.61 ft / 1.10 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.15 ft / 6.75 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Average freeboard: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 109.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 215.8 %
Waterplane Area: 16,839 Square feet or 1,564 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 47 lbs/sq ft or 230 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.46
- Longitudinal: 1.34
- Overall: 0.51
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Basically a joint light destroyer prototype. Added only a bit of deck armor to the design and kept the armored turrets. Designed to basically cause havoc with enemy convoys and hunt things like torpedo boats and other destroyers with some AA capability.
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