Shipbucket

Yes, much.

She has the German trend of a separate Secondary Battery/Heavy AA Battery which cost space but that's a deliberate design decision. You might want to try a version with a true DP Battery, this will save you much weight which can be used for other things like thickening armor...

Your designs are getting better, looking forward to more!

Re Jormungand,

I would compare your numbers to the real Admiral Hipper-class as the closest comparison, your numbers are a bit high considering that they are not much bigger.

I would ditch the TDS its just to small to stop much and most CAs didn't have one.
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 16.76 m and beam of 24.00 m gives you 3.62m each side not sure that will do anything but act a a wing tank (on opposite undamaged side) and capsize you after a hit.
(this will save you loads of length and weight and you can go to unit BR/ER/BR/ER to save you from one hit)

Not sure why you have 6" guns on a 8" CA rather than more 8" ?

2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm
All a bit strong don't you think ?

30.00 kts is slow for a CA you should be able to outrun BCs or you will die.

Maybe design it with automatic DPs given the German quality obsession? @ 6" guns: the German design philosophy is odd to those who see DP guns everywhere. From what I can tell the lack of DP guns is due to the mentality that Germans had in general towards DP guns in that they're too much of a compromise in the first place, so they worked on getting a space-hogging arrangement of AA and anti-ship guns to work instead.

@ TDS: was going to have 5" torpedo belts but someone suggested to half that.

@ more 8" guns: see the reasoning for the 6" guns.

Well, here is revision 2...

Jormungand, Imperial Germany Heavy Cruiser laid down 1942

Displacement:
15,992 t light; 17,140 t standard; 20,000 t normal; 22,288 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(704.15 ft / 672.57 ft) x 78.74 ft x (26.25 / 28.46 ft)
(214.63 m / 205.00 m) x 24.00 m x (8.00 / 8.67 m)

Armament:
8 - 7.87" / 200 mm 50.0 cal guns - 258.40lbs / 117.21kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1942 Model
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
1 raised mount aft - superfiring
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm 55.0 cal guns - 111.16lbs / 50.42kg shells, 300 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1942 Model
4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 65.0 cal guns - 39.15lbs / 17.76kg shells, 100 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1942 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 double raised mounts
48 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1.63lbs / 0.74kg shells, 6,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1942 Model
12 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
4 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,106 lbs / 1,862 kg
Main Torpedoes
20 - 21.0" / 533 mm, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m torpedoes - 1.566 t each, 31.326 t total
In 4 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 437.17 ft / 133.25 m 10.65 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 235.38 ft / 71.74 m 10.65 ft / 3.25 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 437.17 ft / 133.25 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 5.00" / 127 mm -
2nd: 5.00" / 127 mm 3.00" / 76 mm -
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.00" / 51 mm, Aft 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 115,783 shp / 86,374 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 5,149 tons

Complement:
840 - 1,093

Cost:
£8.923 million / $35.692 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,253 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,190 tons, 5.9 %
- Weapons: 63 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 4,617 tons, 23.1 %
- Belts: 1,982 tons, 9.9 %
- Armament: 544 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,028 tons, 10.1 %
- Conning Towers: 63 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,025 tons, 15.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,297 tons, 31.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,008 tons, 20.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 800 tons, 4.0 %
- Hull above water: 200 tons
- On freeboard deck: 300 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,981 lbs / 12,692 Kg = 114.6 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 2.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 3.7 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.504 / 0.518
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.54 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.02 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.54 ft / 8.70 m, 23.33 ft / 7.11 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.33 ft / 7.11 m, 18.14 ft / 5.53 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 18.14 ft / 5.53 m, 18.14 ft / 5.53 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 18.14 ft / 5.53 m, 18.14 ft / 5.53 m
- Average freeboard: 20.37 ft / 6.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.2 %
Waterplane Area: 36,251 Square feet or 3,368 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

while it may look good on paper, you try drawing that with all the weaponry you have given it, and in the places you have said they are to go. The ship just is not big enough to take it. Which is why I hate Springsharp and wont use it. It gives too many false reports and lets ships like yours into the water where they just do not work (except on paper).

Below is a blank German cruiser 704x80 feet, close enough to your dimensions. Below it are the gun and torpedo types you have nominated. Try and fit your armament on both upper and lower views.
Post the result back into this thread so we can see what you can come up with.

Alright then, I've downloaded the blank ship and will get something in the coming days.

Wish that Springsharp continued instead of dying though...

Good luck with the fittings, you also have to remember with the 6" and 8" they will need to have ammunition handling rooms and magazines underneath the turrets, and then you still have to do your machinery rooms.

Hi GrandAdmiralFox,

As I understand it, one of the big drivers towards a separate low-angle battery was concern over RN destroyers - the KM traded away AA performance to ensure they'd be able to engage destroyers outside of their own range. The 105mm AA followed on from the 149.1mm's manifest unsuitability for AA work - if you're going to have to carry separate AA anyway, might as well optimise it for that role.

Regards,
Adam

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

But this isn't a Capital ship no 8" CA (even the German ones) had a secondary battery and only had DP or AA guns as secondary.

8" are perfectly good at shooting at DDs so why not just have more of them and save having to ship twice the directors etc...

Looking at this I see a raider or an escort. Main Battery isn't enough to take on a capitol ship but she can take on most anything else.

I do agree that deck space is going to be a bit crowded with this many guns though...