Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 1 of 1  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
Hood
Post subject: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project NumbersPosted: August 9th, 2015, 3:18 pm
Offline
Posts: 7233
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
I've been going through Tzoli's comprehensive list of Soviet project numbers that he has complied.

It raises an interesting question. To what extent were other Warsaw Bloc nations tied into the Project numbering system?
The East German list here: http://www.vierte-flottille.de/schiffeu ... ktevm.html indicates the GDR had its own separate numbering system, but East German ships were accommodated within the Soviet system where conflict occurred (for example Project 133 Antares/ Muravey class guard ship and Project 133.1M Parchim II class corvette. The Poles too seemed to have their own system but it seems a very long numbering list and several of the 770 series transports do not overlap with other Soviet designs.
Then there is the odd case of Romania, very few of its ships have Project numbers but the Tetals (Pr.1048) and the Mihail Koganiceanu class river monitor (Pr.1310) had such numbers assigned at they fall within unused Soviet numbers. Oddly other Romanian ships like the Muntenia Class don't have numbers.

Can any of our E.Bloc experts untangle this mess? And would it be possible for use to tease out a complete list of all E.Bloc project numbers?

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project NumbersPosted: August 9th, 2015, 3:41 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 4714
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 5:10 am
Location: Finland
Contact: Website
polish and east german project numbering where indeed national and did not correspond to the Soviet system, thought using them at first place was offcourse influenced by that of the soviet one. The german system particulary was rather comprehensive, it covered all projects since the 50's and often issued decimal numbering for each individual ship of the class (this was also used for the soviet made ships at least in cases of the larger combatants). I think the most overlapsing issues seems to come when they exported their ships to Soviet union which then used those same numbers though I recall that some polish vessels had different pr. numbers in soviet use (perhaps Eswube can help with those?)
Romanian numbers are indeed rare and I've never came cross to them in any actuall romanian publication.

_________________
Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project NumbersPosted: August 15th, 2015, 3:27 pm
Offline
Posts: 7233
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
My first attempt at a Polish list.

I'm sure there is plenty to add here:

Project 9 (1956): Oksywie class coast guard patrol boat
Project 90 (1973): Wisloka class coast guard patrol boat
Project 101 (1953): KP-101 class coast guard patrol boat (built in Hungary)
Project 151 (1954): TR-40 class licence-built Soviet design river minesweeper
Project 122bis (1955): improved Kronshtadt class submarine chaser (USSR)
Project 130 (1984): Bereza class degaussing vessel for USSR
Project 130-I (1990s): modified Bereza degaussing and research ship design
Project 361S (1956): KP-108 class licence-built Soviet design patrol boat
Project 361T (1956): KP-118 class licence-built Soviet design minesweeper
Project 189 (1956): P-6 class torpedo boat (USSR)
Project 194BMO (1946): S-71 class submarine chaser (USSR)
Project 200 (1946): OD-200 class submarine chaser (USSR) (aka MO-D-3 class)
Project 205 (1964): Osa I class fast missile boat (USSR)
Project 206F Orlik (1963): Krogulec class minesweeper
Project 206FM Orlik (1999): modernised Krogulec class minesweeper
Project 207 (1982): Notec class minesweeper
Project 207D (???): modified Notec class trials ship
Project 207P (1984): improved Notec class minesweeper
Project 207M (1992): improved Notec class minesweeper
Project 208 (1971): Mrowka class degaussing tender
Project 253L (1950s): MT class minesweeper (USSR)
Project 254K (1950s): T-61 class minesweeper (USSR)
Project 254M (1950s): T-64 class minesweeper (USSR)
Project 300 (1962): Oskol I class floating workshop for USSR
Project 300/2: Oskol I class floating workshop for USSR
Project 301T (1964): Oskol II class floating workshop for USSR
Project 303 (1967): Modified Oskol class floating workshop for USSR
Project 304.1 (1968): Amur I class floating workshop for USSR
Project 304.2 (1976): Amur II class floating workshop for USSR
Project 304.3 (1981): Amur III class floating workshop for USSR
Project 304.4 (Pr.304M?) (1985): Amur IV class floating workshop for USSR
Project 305 (1973): Tomba class electric power station for USSR
Project 414 (1988): passenger launch
Project 500 (???): fuel lighter
Project 570: Piast class salvage ship
Project 605.3 (???): large anti-submarine ship design
Project 606 (???): large anti-submarine ship design
Project 607 (???): large anti-submarine ship design
Project 608 (???): large anti-submarine ship design
Project 609 (???): large anti-submarine ship design
Project 610 (???): small frigate design
Project 611 (???): small frigate design
Project 618 (???): small frigate design
Project 618M (1971): small frigate design
Project 619 (???): small frigate design
Project 620 Drakon (1978): SK-620 class ambulance craft for USSR
Project 620 (1987): Kaszub class corvette
Project 620-II (1990s): modified Kaszub class corvette design
Project 621 (2001): MEKO A-100 class frigate
Project 660 Orkan (1990): Balcom-10 class fast missile boat (GDR Pr.151A Sassnitz )
Project 663D Sroka (1965): experimental torpedo boat
Project 664 Sroka 2 (1972): Wisla class torpedo boat
Project 649 (1984?): minelayer/ landing ship design for Bulgaria
Project 709 Sztorm (1962): Eichstaden class landing craft
Project 716 Droździk (1988): Deba class large landing craft
Project 719 (1975): Marabut class landing craft
Project 767-I (1983): medium landing ship design
Project 767-II (1984): medium landing ship design
Project 767-III (1984): medium landing ship design
Project767 Brzegówka (1989): Balcom-11/ Lublin class medium landing ship/ minelayer
Project 768 (???): medium landing ship design
Project 769 (???): medium landing ship design
Project 770D (1961): Polnocny-A class landing ship
Project 770D/U (1971): modernised Polnocny-A class landing ship
Project 770M (1964): improved Polnocny-A class landing ship
Project 770MA (1964): improved Polnocny-A class landing ship
Project 770T (1963): modified Polnocny-A class landing ship for USSR
Project 771 (1966): Polnocny-B class landing ship
Project 771A (1968): modified Polnocny-B class landing ship
Project 773 (1970): export Polnocny-C class landing ship
Project 773I: Polnocny-C class landing ship for India
Project 773IM: modified Polnocny-C class landing ship for India
Project 773K: Polnocny-C class landing ship for Iraq
Project 773KL: Polnocny-C class landing ship for Libya
Project 773U: Polnocny-D class landing ship for USSR
Project 772 (1967): Bryza class personnel ferry
Project 772U (1967): Bryza class training craft for USSR
Project 775.1 (1972): Ropucha I class landing ship for USSR
Project 775.2 (Pr.775M?) (1979): Ropucha II class landing ship for USSR
Project 775.3 (1988): Ropucha III class landing ship for USSR
Project 776: Modified Polnocny-C amphibious assault command ship
Project 850 (1962): Nikolay Zubov class oceanographic vessel for USSR
Project 850M (1966): Nikolay Zubov class intelligence gathering ship for USSR
Project 852 (1972): Akademik Krylov class oceanographic vessel for USSR
Project 852.2 (1977): Improved Akademik Krylov class oceanographic vessel for USSR
Project 856 (???): modified Akademik Krylov class expeditionary oceanographic vessel for USSR
Project 860 Azimut (1961): Samara class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 861 (1966): Moma class hydrographic survey ship
Project 861M (1968): Moma class intelligence gathering ship for USSR
Project 862 (1976): Yug class oceanographic vessel for USSR
Project 862.1 (1980?): Yug class intelligence gathering ship for USSR
Project 862.2 (1980): Yug class intelligence gathering ship for USSR
Project 863: Modified Moma class small intelligence ship
Project 864 Meridian (1984): Vishnya class intelligence gathering ship for USSR
Project 870 (1968): Kamenka class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 871 (1969): Biya class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 872 (aka B-91) (1977): Finik class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 872.2 (1980): improved Finik class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 874 Heweliuz (1981): modified Finik class hydrographic survey ship
Project 873 (1989): Sibirykov class hydrographic survey ship for USSR
Project 877E Paltus (1986): Kilo I class diesel-electric attack submarine (USSR)
Project 887 (1974): Smol'nyy class training ship for USSR
Project 888 (1976): Wodnik class cadet training ship (Luga class in Soviet service)
Project 888R (1976?): Wodnik II class training ship
Project 890 (aka Pr.B-890 or Pr.130Z) (1999): Małż class logistical support ship
Project 900 (???): RIB launch
Project 902 (1959): Gdansk class coast guard patrol boat
Project 912 Fala (1965): Obluze class coast guard patrol boat
Project 912M Groźny (1970): Modified Obluze class small anti-submarine boat
Project 918 (1973): Pilica class coast guard patrol boat
Project 918M (1976): Modified Pilica class small anti-submarine boat
Project 1130 (1961): Desna class missile range instrumentation ship for USSR
Project 1241RE Molnaya (1983): Tarantul I class corvette (USSR)
Project 1328 (1969): K-6 class coast guard motor launch
Project 2201 (1990s): modified Project 775 class landing ship design for export
Project 3564 S-12 (1986): Szkwal class coast guard motor launch
Project 4234 (1989): ??? class inshore survey craft
Project 5633 Kaper (1990): SKS-40 class coast guard patrol ship
Project 7062 (1990s): medium landing ship design for export
Project 7062-I (1990s): medium landing ship design for export

Project B-1 (1954): fishing trawler
Project B-15 (???): stern-trawler factory ship
Project B-18 (1967): stern-trawler factory ship
Project B-26 (1960): stern-trawler factory ship
Project B-30 (1950): coal/ ore carrier
Project B-31 (1957): collier
Project B-32 (1953): collier
Project B-40 (1967): cargo motorship
Project B-43 (1962): cargo motorship
Project B-44 (1963): cargo motorship
Project B-44-II (???): cargo motorship
Project B-45 (1962): motor timber carrier
Project B-50 (1953): Levant class cargo motorship
Project B-54 (1958): cargo motorship
Project B-62 (1958): fishing craft mother ship
Project B-64 (1963): fish-factory mother ship
Project B-69 (1967?): fish-factory mother ship
Project B-70 (1962): oil tanker
Project B-74 (1962): small oil tanker
Project B-79/II: barkentine sail training craft
Project B-91: see Project 872 Finik above
Project B-92 (1982): Neftegaz class tug for USSR
Project B-93: Akademik Fersman class geophysical research ship for USSR
Project B-99 (1984?): Iva / Vikhr class rescue tug for USSR
Project B-106: M-81 class inshore survey craft for USSR
Project B-140 (???): fishing trawler
Project B-199 (1969?): Moskit class coastal oiler
Project B410-IVS (1983): Leniwka class auxiliary minesweeper
Project B-320 (???): Ob' class floating hospital for USSR
Project B-320 II (1981): Ob' class floating hospital for USSR
Project B-470 (1967): Zvenigorod class bulk carrier for USSR
Project B-514 (1960): motor timber carrier
Project B-541 (1961): refrigerated cargo motorship
Project B-561: Nicobar class transport for India
Project B-920 (1993): medium harbour tug
Project B-823 (1991): Zbyszko class salvage tender
Project BPZ-500A/MW (1988): fuel barge
Project H300/II: Goliat class small harbour tug
Project H-900/II (1980): Bucha class medium harbour tug
Project H-960 (1992): large harbour tug
Project Kormoran (1971): Pajak class torpedo retriever
Project M-4500 (???): RIB launch
Project M-4800 (???): RIB launch
Project M-4800/B (???): RIB launch
Project M-6100 (???): RIB launch
Project M-7500 (???): RIB launch
Project M-7500/K (???): RIB launch
Project MS-3600 (1970): commander-in-chief's yacht
Project TS-39 or UK-3 (1978): Petrushka class training cutter for USSR

Bataisk (1955): fishery training ship for USSR
D-3 (1946): ST-181 class motor torpedo boat (USSR)
KD-153 (1947): fishing boat (4 armed as patrol vessels)
KG-177 (1949?): fishing boat (2 armed as patrol vessels)
KR-70 (1965): motor launch
KR-70S Jesion (1973): coast guard motor launch
KU-128 (1947): fishing boat
M-35/ MW (1983): multi-purpose launch
M-41 (1950s): utility boat
MH-111 (1984): hydrographic survey launch
NS-717 (1999): improved Project 716 class landing craft for Yemen
NS-721 (late 1980s): modified Project 773 class landing ship design for India
NS-722 (1999): modified Project 773 class landing ship for Yemen
ST (1950): Bitny class training boat
ZP-1200 (1991): small replenishment oiler

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project NumbersPosted: August 16th, 2015, 10:54 am
Offline
Posts: 10696
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Very nice attempt Hood, but actually somewhat confusing, as it's actually not as much a "list of Polish project numbers" but rather "list of project numbers and design acronyms of ships built and used in Poland".
Indeed each country used it's own project number sequence , but they were to an extent interchangeable in the sense that ships built in one country for another had only one project number (rare exception being the missile boat designated by NATO as BAL-COM 10, which was Pr.151 in East German sequence and Pr.660 in Polish sequence).

The numbers on the list actually belong to three groups, only two of them (or one-and-a-half) is actually Polish.
1) ships built in Soviet Union (like Pr.205 or Pr.877 for example) or Hungary (Pr.101) and/or built in Poland under license which kept their original "foreign" project number (occassionaly with only an additional post-number letter for local design modification);
2) ships built in Poland for foreign - most often Soviet - order (either only for export - Pr.775 for example, or both for export and domestic use - Pr.770-family for example), having the same project number in both sequences (Polish and Soviet);
3) actual "Polish project numbers" (Pr.207, for example).

Next thing are the project numbers with B-letter (Pr.B410 or Pr.B-410 depending on source). Generally these refer to civilian vessels, but with a caveat: the military project numbers were confidential, but the construction of any vessel involves of numerous sub-contractors, often delivering relatively trivial elements, therefore the "military-ordered ships" had, besides their main (confidential) project number, the secondary ("public") project number with B letter, used as internal designation of the design bureau and for contacts with sub-contractors, which thereby didn't need to know the "actual" designation.

And finally, the last group on the list - besides containing the D-3 which is simply a non-Pr. Soviet designation, it contains some ships that generally belong to the "basic" lists as their extensions (like NS-717 or NS-723, whose numbers belong to original sequence but after the post-1989 political changes no longer use the Pr. but use the NS- - for Navy Shipyard - instead) and some separate non-sequential designations like ST which was essentialy a correspondence cryptonym rather than the "usual project number". There are also some fishing boats there, but the details of their designations are as yet unclear for me - I have relatively recently acquired a very interesting book about Polish fishing boats (with lots of drawings - hint, hint ;) ), but I didn't had the opportunity to read it yet.

I'll try to eventually compile the list of Polish project numbers, but that's unlikely to happen too soon, I'm afraid. :(

P.S. - Not Pr.194BMO but Pr.194 BMO - BMO is a separate designation (Bronirovanny Malyi Okhotnik - Armored Small Submarine Chaser), not an extension of project number (like Pr.667B/BD/BRD/BDRM), as that would imply existence of earlier Pr.194B/BM. ;)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project NumbersPosted: August 16th, 2015, 12:36 pm
Offline
Posts: 7233
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
Thanks for the feedback.

Yes it is a compilation at the moment, the Soviet/ E.Bloc imports will be removed - they are placeholders at the moment.
The group at the bottom are unknown's, I suspect many of these may have Project numbers but don't know for sure. As you say the NS sequence is post cold-war so should be removed.

I included ships built for Soviet/ E.Bloc accounts for completeness, though I have these marked on the Soviet list too.

I'm sure there are hundreds of B-numbers, this is a tiny selection I've come across. I complete list will be hard to compile and would be a big list but I'm sure we could get there in the end.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 1 of 1  [ 5 posts ]  Return to “Off Topic”

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]