Shipbucket

Ok my thoughts,

- What date is that ? (looks post 45 from German borders ?)

- I would start at a start date (say 1939 ?) and then change stuff (ie add Krechtal) and then run from there.....

- like your really nice small ships I would keep Krechtal small and out of the way to minimize the problems of rewriting history.

- may I suggest that you remodel the Baltic to create a second Denmark ? that way it can stay out of WW2 (as Sweden) and has a reason for a strong navy (why not if you are on shipbucket ) and doesn’t delete any OTL nation (with the historical and forum hassle that involves)

-my main problem is that any none soviet nation is after 45 very likely to be allied with NATO (or at least armed biased neutrality like Sweden)

Hi JSB, thanks for your input again I will think about that...
The map is a general overview between 1950 and 1990 with germany as complete country...

I also made a new version of the actuall history with more details and more "background".
pre WWI:
In 1855 the Monarch of Krechtal formed the country in a military monarchy with traits of a constitutional monarchy. This step was caused by revolt of the worker against the monarch and his officers which was kicked of by the campaign in Germany in 1948. After this several military operations together with Prussia improve the relationship of both countries and leads to an economic boom because an exchange of technologies makes Krechtal to a leading country in the field of weapon technology and metal producing industry. The social system was also very modern for this time: child labor until 12 years was forbidden by law. Also an insurance for accidents during the work was statutory.
World War One:
Krechtal did not join the western front but the eastern one. However the krechtalian armed forces and the air force supported the Germans secretly. Together with the German empire Russia was defeated. After the war the occupied territory was mainly given back to Russia in the exchange-treaty. Russia will get its territory back and in exchange Krechtal will get reparation payments and technology from Russia.

1920s:
Krechtal was also hit hard by the financial crisis what causes some internal trouble and different attempted putsches. The government was able to keep control, mainly by giving the general heading more leeway for their decisions. This decree was not canceled after the situation becomes better in 1929/ 30.
1930s:
After Germany, the direct border country of Krechtal was moving into a dictatorship, the Government decides in a plebiscite to improve the military power. Several secret contracts between Germany and Krechtal where concluded. Both countries make sure to not attack each other and work together in the technological and economical part of armament. This gave the arms industry in whole Europe a flip. Also freeways were build between Krechtal and Germany to improve infrastructure and ease and prepare Germanys blitzkrieg.
World War Two:
Krechtal stay innocent in WWII although the German troops were allowed to pass krechtalian territory to attack Russia/ the USSR. The only war acts of Krechtal were self-defense of krechtalian ships and submarines which were attacked. Although this should not happens over 25 documented times krechtalian ships were spuriously attacked. This was mainly caused by the optical similarity of the ships/ submarines and their weapons with the German ones.
1st Russia Conflict (1945-47):

After WWII was over and Germany was divided into West and East (OTL) the USSR want to move their troops as fast as possible into their new territory. They already had some naval units in east Germany, which came through the Baltic see and other units were moved in trough the future CSSR. The Russian government decided to send the main army trough krechtalian territory which was obviously the fastest way. This was seen as an act of war because the USSR had no permission. The distrust was very high because several scattered German soldiers warn against the red army. After Russia refused to stop their forces the krechtalian army tried to stop them. The USA and GB supported them because they don't want to lose another country to the socialistic system. The defensive against the USSR was very hard, mainly because of the high numbers of enemies... but Krechtal and GB push back the Russian naval unit’s which were coming through the Baltic sea successfully. Because the USSR don't want to lose the control about the Baltic Sea/ the sea route to East Germany they agreed peace treaty. They were allowed to send unit’s trough the CSSR and the Baltic Sea. In return they will move out of krechtalian territory, the USA/ GB leafe the east sector and give the southern part (parts of Saxony and Thuringia) to the USSR. In exchange West Berlin was given to the USA/ GB.

border conflict (1948):

The blockade of West Berlin by Russian troops started as a repayment for the help the USA and GB offered to Krechtal in 1945. To stop this action the West German armed forces attack the border of the East German sector (red point). This leads to some diplomatic trouble which could be ended in the autumn of the same year mainly because the USSR cannot achieve the result they want with the blockade due the USA provide West Berlin with all needed goods through the air (OTL) and the attack of the east German border should be ended to provide a bigger conflict. As a result the West German army stopped their attack and the USSR stopped the Blockade 3 weeks later.

2nd Russia Conflict (1952-53):
A new upcoming conflict which was caused by another attack of the border by West German armed forces was ended by the death of Stalin. The attack of the border was started because the Russian Navy captured an American and a German cargo ship on their way through the Baltic sea. The official reason is that they want to prevent the ships from supporting/ brining goods to USSR controlled countries. This conflict was ended in 1953 by the death of Stalin. The new government of the USSR decided that they need their armed resources to defend the eastern border and to improve the internal security after several attacks of rebels which want to split the USSR. Russia don’t refuse to clear the GDRs territory and give the control to Krechtal.
Krechtal decided to keep the GDR, which was founded in 1949, independent. They just offered an economical and financial support to improve the economy of the GDR. As a result of the two attacks of the West German armed forces a small part of West Germanys territory was given to the GDR/ Krechtal. This decision supported by the USA/ GB allows the GDR and Krechtal to reach the North Sea more easily and maintain a harbor. This territory was controlled together with Krechtal until 1993.


Cold War:
In the cold war Krechtal and the GDR joined the NATO. After this several conflicts with the direct border country of Krechtal happens until the USSR collapsed in 1990 (OTL).
*WIP*

Today:
*WIP* (but mainly like in OTL, just GDR keep existing)

And PLEASE DON'T comment like 'err...thats crap...' give me some helpfull critic or advise instead, like JSB did

I hope the new backstory is a little bit more logical to you... and JSB I will think about your input ;_)

_________________
best regards
Martin

~~Normerr~~FD stuff~~

Ok hope you don't mind but I think you have a few problems (IMO)

The main one is that I don't think you can split east and west wars (WW1/2) if you join the Germans you join the Germans and unless you defect effectively (Finland/Italy style) you will get treated as Germany’s ally. (with all that losing a war entails, treaty’s etc)

Specifics,
- WWI you will be hit by VT (or other of its type as France will treat you as extra to German army) and later with no Poland France will ally with USSR.

- WW II Allowing troops to pass isn’t innocent and will not be treated as such.

- Red army cant advance (fast) over the Czech mountains (or Baltic) so it will be a longer war (with W Allies wining all of Germany) or more likely the red army rolls to your border and then rolls over you as you are a de facto German ally, this will lead to destruction and change of government.

- if WW III starts if USSR fights Krechtal supported by GB/USA (but would they really support a former Nazi ally in 47/48 or 51-52 ?)
Remember that in 50-53 the Korean war is hot if it light up in Europe WW3 will likely start.
Basically I think the post 45 stuff is ignoring the fact that any war will end up NATO(inc Krechtal) v USSR (+ puppets) and will change history hugely.

I also have a Question how 'German' is Krechtal ? if its fully German how does it stop the calls for joining Germany ? (under Bismark,AH, or later)

sorry to double post but this is what I had in mind when I was talking about a peninsular type in Baltic.


1920s (base map from AH.com wiki)

the idea would be a German principality that never join fully in with Germany and is sufficiently out of the way to stay out of WW1/2 and survive to modern day.

sorry if this is clogging your AU with my thoughts

I like your idea for his country JSB but i think he needs a bigger country for his population of 70. 200.000. I would make your penninsular a little bigger and add the baltic states to it . That way the Germans dont need to go tru his country wen they invade Russia. And that way he can stay out of the war as he planned. And still can have border problems with the russians afther the war . In that case the UK and USA will more be willing to support him against Russia

_________________
___________________________________________

Best Regards,
Aart.

Projects:

The Kingdom of Rochfort in FD

I would agree with size (my pic was just a 5min job just moved Sweden to make a bigger Baltic) but a land border with USSR would IMO throw in lots of problems (especially if pre 45)(and make NATO membership more likely and more % of defence spending on tanks than SHIPS )

(290k Km/s is Italy sized and 70mil is a lot personally not sure if you will be able to stand out of the great powers struggles ? you will be the richest county in Europe if you do stand out of WWI/II)

Think that you should move your principality to Namibia Africa, since this country was once German colony.

Hi all
@JSB: thank you, your ideas are great, unfortunately I just read them now...

But I came up with somethink similar, after I think about your Input this night

I think this history would leed to an new AU nation with other stats and other army equip/ size...


The map shows the country after 1945. Basicly its the same shape today (witout GDR, like OTL )

History
• little archipelago in the time of 1300, a monarchy with their economy in the sector of agriculture, fishing and forestry
• a cooperation with the Hanseatic league and an organized trade with other surrounding countries and the Hanseatic town leads to a rising of wealth and prosperity of the country at the beginning of 1400
• In the time between 1500 and 1700 the country grows bigger and bigger. Some surrounding islands join the country others were captured. In this time the country evolves it’s strong naval forces we all know today. In the flowering time big parts of Denmark and the southern coastline of the Baltic Sea belong to this country.
• Around 1760 the mining industry grows. This was instigated by the industrialization and the new technologies coming from England. That doesn’t mean that there were no mining industry before but at this time it becomes important for the country’s economy.
• Around 1800 the Denmark war happens. The Denmark Kings establish a bi army together with several partners. The surrounding countries support this war because they don’t want to have a too strong nation in the Baltic Sea. After this conflict the countries border to the Denmark’s obtain the shape we can see today.
• Around 1850 several riots were born due the political situation in France and the German empire. As a result the monarchy was formed into a constitutional monarchy with their own, modern constitution.
• After this the economic power rises. The whole country becomes a railway system where possible. Also a high number of ferries was used to improve the infrastructure.
• Around 1870 several conflicts in Africa and the near East take place. In this time the countries captured several colonies from other countries. This was possible because of the strong naval force.
• Around 1900 the naval forces were improved as a reaction of the rising of the British and German navy.
• 1914: The country joins the first world war on the German side mainly because the good relationship to the German Empire since the 1880s. The military success on the eastern front comes quick. The Russian naval forces weren’t able to stop the high powered naval forces of the country and Germany.
• Between 1914 to 1918 smaller military operations, mainly of the naval forces and the air force support Germany.
• After the treaty of Brest-Listovsk in 1918 the country capitulates to the Western forces. This was mainly done because the war was nearly over and the military head of the German empire refused to change their tactics so both countries can fight efficient together.
• The country was not punished in the treaty of Versailles because it’s early capitulation. It only was punished with reparation repayments and the transfer of technology, mainly the naval one to GB. The borders western were moved back to their state of 1914.
• After 1920 the country also have to fight with the financial crises. A big inflation like in other countries didn’t happen because the government have a very effective financial politic and a strong economy caused mainly by the export of ships and planes for both civil and military use.
• 1926 first attempted putsch caused by the political putsches in Germany. As a result a kind of secret service was found. It’s main task was to protect the state and the constitution against revolts.
• In 1934, after the political situation changed in Germany, the constitution was improved. Several mistakes were corrected and the parliament gets more power so the country gets more democratic.
• 1934-1939 the strength of the armed forces was improved and the army was modernized. This was necessary as a result of the German military power was rising and the country want to stay safe.
• 1940 the country joined the second world war on Germanys side after 2 passenger ships and the escort were destroyed by American ships. Over 2000 people died in this accident. However the country tried to stay in the background. No big army operations. Mainly naval support for German ships or submarines.
• 1944 the armed forces moved into Denmark after the war seems to be over for the axis. German units were supported by the countries air force in the Normandy.
• 1945 the Second World War was over. The county wasn’t punished as hard as Germany because the aggressions against west and east weren’t that hard also the crimes against the human rights weren’t as bad as the other axis did. The country’s borders were moved back to the location of 1920. Only a little part of its territory was given to Poland.
• 1946 the USA/ GB moved into the country. Not as an act of war but to protect the country against the USSR. If the county was converted into a socialistic system the USA/ GB (future NATO) has less changes to control the soviet (submarine) fleet and the east German sector. Only a few parts of the eastern Island were given to the USSR to prevent diplomatic chaos.
• 1950 the American and British units moved out of the country after the own armed forces received enough strength to protect the country themselves.
• In the time between 1950 and 1953 most of the countries colonies were send into independence. Some African ones receive economical and military support so the country can reorganize itself more easy.
• In the cold war several incidents with soviet submarines happens but that only leads to diplomatic trouble but no armed conflict.
Again please criticise and give some helpful advise

_________________
best regards
Martin

~~Normerr~~FD stuff~~

As far i can see this background story and place of your country will work.

Only thing i think you have to change is the 2 passenger ships and escort wichhave been destroyed by the Americans. They were not at war with Germany in 1940. So maby you have to change that to English or maby French or Dutch ships.

_________________
___________________________________________

Best Regards,
Aart.

Projects:

The Kingdom of Rochfort in FD

Ok my personal views Not sure that you can hold the 'mainland' bits post railways invention Germany/Denmark/Sweden will eat them up leaving you with just the islands IMO.(and I don't like 1/2 islands you ether have the best navy in Baltic or you don’t)
Not sure you should bother if you will not be sufficiently large to play the great game well maybe 1 small colony just for prestige ?
I would have them as a de facto German ally ?
Ok works IMO (but biased neutrality would be more fun and save reparations ?)
think this is over optimistic nobody is buying these, but you don't have to be as bad as OTL Germany
OK
ERRR ? USN not involved till late 41+ ? I would try to stay out of WWII, just stick to volunteer formations and incidents or you will get squashed later.
? I don't understand what you mean by this sorry?
I think unlikely if you join the axis you will get hit badly when they lose (even Finland/Italy suffered and they dropped out early, you will be occupied in 45 and limited by treaty)
unlikely with massive USSR threat if you have to rebuild after the war as your forces got disbanded in 45 ?
You would have lost them all in 1918 or 1945 if you lose the wars with Germany ?
ok nice and safe

Hope that explains my thought acceptably, I think you are underestimating the downside of joining with Germany in losing 2 major wars (I would have them neutral but occasionally helping Germany with volunteers/production to stay out of the wars) This would allow a HRE principality (with clear water borders) to stay separate to the modern day and grow much richer .