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I find it funny and very amusing that the replacement for the Himmel uses the exact same hull as the AU ship show here,

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"Lead me, follow me or the get the hell out of my way!" -George S. Patton
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Karsk class Battlecruiser, Lothringen's first battlecruiser
This class was the first battlecruiser class to serve under the Lothringenese Flag. This design surfaced as a response to the British Invincible class battlecruisers. These class of warships had main battery of eight 12 inch guns and a secondary battery of fourteen 6 inch guns and six 4 inch guns. The reason for the large number of secondary guns is to enable the battlecruisers to engage several smaller vessels. The Karsk class battlecruiser had a powerplant of 4 steam turbines and 32 boilers powering four shafts which produced 42,000 shp or 313120 kW. The battlecruiser class has a top speed of 27 knots. They were protected by 5 inches of belt armour, 2 inches of deck armour and 6 inches of turret armour. The Lothringenese Federal Navy had five of these warships. All survived World War 1 however all were scrapped with LS Karsk being the last in 1921.

_________________
"Lead me, follow me or the get the hell out of my way!" -George S. Patton
"A ship is referred as a "she" because it takes so much powder and paint to maintain her"- Chester W. Nimitz

Hi Oberst,

I have a question, if that's OK - those offset centre turrets on Invincible were intended to fire on either beam, however, with the funnels there I'm not sure if that is an option for your battlecruiser - are they intended to fire to both sides?

Regards,
Adam

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

No, they were not intended to do so

_________________
"Lead me, follow me or the get the hell out of my way!" -George S. Patton
"A ship is referred as a "she" because it takes so much powder and paint to maintain her"- Chester W. Nimitz

as the original author of the ship you kitbashed, I am very dissapointed in this drawing. why? for a few reasons, actually.
- what the hell have you done with the main deck/forecastle break. the upper part of the forecastle is suddenly no longer part of your structural hull? and which such a line?
- you have windows very far forward, in front of your colission bulkhead in fact. this is as far as I know never done, and there would be very little space gained as well.
- I cannot make sense of how you drew the torpedo protection nets
- there are rudders on your ship which are not in front of your propellers? the shape of your stern seems off in general.
- the early dreadnoughts and battlecruisers IIRC had big guns and small anti-torpedo boat guns only, while you have a sizable secondary battery.
- your arnament is actually that of an later battleship, with 4 twin primary guns, a set of secondary guns and tertiary anti-torpedo boat guns. in fact, I think your battlecruiser has heavier arnament then the original battleship design.
- your ship is a lot bigger then the other ships of the time, are you certain there are dockyard facilities and tech to make that possible?
- the offset turrets, mentioned above already, why are they offset then? while there are reasons to do so, there are also reasons (very sound, structural reasons) like making the entire ship assymetrical (more complicated to design/build), magazine handling, fire control.....
- judging from your funnels, you increased the size of the ship, called it a battlecruiser (so it has to be fast) but did not increase the size of the boilers. this vessel will thus be notably slower then the design you based it on.
- your mast interferes with the port turret.
- you lack anchor winches and most of the mooring gear
- when you kitbash, at the very least make sure which parts originate from which ships. merge them, and create your own ship design./drawing.

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
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Well, then you should get angry at Midnightnova then because I used the hull from his Moltkes Battlecruiser, SMS Goeben.
I have redone the ship

_________________
"Lead me, follow me or the get the hell out of my way!" -George S. Patton
"A ship is referred as a "she" because it takes so much powder and paint to maintain her"- Chester W. Nimitz

the issues remaining from my previous comment:
- what the hell have you done with the main deck/forecastle break. the upper part of the forecastle is suddenly no longer part of your structural hull? and which such a line?
- you have windows very far forward, in front of your colission bulkhead in fact. this is as far as I know never done, and there would be very little space gained as well.
- there are rudders on your ship which are not in front of your propellers? the shape of your stern seems off in general.
- the early dreadnoughts and battlecruisers IIRC had big guns and small anti-torpedo boat guns only, while you have a sizable secondary battery.
- you lack anchor winches and most of the mooring gear
- when you kitbash, at the very least make sure which parts originate from which ships. merge them, and create your own ship design./drawing.

and in addition:
- why do you have only one torpedo net boom (if that is what it is) left now?
- are you certain adding a 4th funnel is a good idea? sketch in your boiler and machinery arrangement to see how the uptake ducts will run
- are you certain 3 separate calibers makes sense for the time era?
- no, I do not really agree with how midnightnova has drawn the hull of the goeben. that does not really represent what I see on pictures of the ship well. that said, on your ship it makes even less sense, and you have the power to correct such things as this is your own design.
- note that mixing a german and a british ship design might not be a very good idea, as those design standards had very little in common.
- this arnament seems a bit light for such a huge ship, don't you think? in fact, you now created a fast pre-dread instead of an slow battlecruiser with very heavy secondary arnament

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Himmel class battlecruiser(edited)
The next battlecruiser class for the Lothringenese Federal Navy is the Himmel class. Five of these ships were built. They were armed with eight 14 inch guns and had a second battery of fourteen 6 inch guns. They were protected by 8 inches of belt armour, 2.5 inches of deck armour and 7 inches of turret armour. They had a powerplant of four steam turbines and 32 boilers powering four shafts which produced 46,500 shp or 34,675 kW. All served in the Pacific Fleet and saw little action during World War 1 other than support the Mariana Island landings. All ships were scrapped by 1930 with LS Lars being the last.

_________________
"Lead me, follow me or the get the hell out of my way!" -George S. Patton
"A ship is referred as a "she" because it takes so much powder and paint to maintain her"- Chester W. Nimitz

Hmmm an undergunned Lion class battlecruiser. What you call 14" look amazingly like the US twin 12" off of a Wyoming class BB. Have a look in the archive under Never were 'Greece', Salamis. There is a very nice 14" twin on that. Or in the 'Deutschland Revolution' thread I have a 6x14" BC that has the same turrets on it. That will enhance your drawing a lot.

Otherwise a 14" gunned Lion type is quite a good idea.

I think of it as "Lion" with a far superior Secondary Battery - 6-inch instead of 4-inch - although she appears to have 16 guns and not 14...