Cruisers for South America

Hi all,

OK, a couple of minor updates to the CL'30, CL'30/38 and what I hope will pass muster for the CL'30/43 (two versions thereof!)- will just plonk the data down (spoiler'd) and then get to the blurb:

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SchnellKreuzer 1930, New Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Light Cruiser laid down 1930

Displacement:
8,751 t light; 9,074 t standard; 9,916 t normal; 10,590 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.37 ft / 574.15 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.33 ft (normal load)
182.69 m / 175.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.50 m

Armament:
12 - 5.87" / 149 mm guns (3x4 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
10 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.64lbs / 0.74kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,431 lbs / 649 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 315.78 ft / 96.25 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 82,470 shp / 61,522 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,515 tons

Complement:
496 - 645

Cost:
£3.376 million / $13.505 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 180 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 1,562 tons, 15.8 %
- Belts: 560 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 310 tons, 3.1 %
- Armour Deck: 672 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,499 tons, 25.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,360 tons, 44.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,166 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,465 lbs / 6,108 Kg = 133.1 x 5.9 " / 149 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 63 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.9 %
Waterplane Area: 23,064 Square feet or 2,143 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 529 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 2.24
- Overall: 1.06
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

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SchnellKreuzer 1938, New Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Light Cruiser laid down 1930 (Engine 1938)

Displacement:
8,774 t light; 9,133 t standard; 9,916 t normal; 10,543 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.37 ft / 574.15 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.33 ft (normal load)
182.69 m / 175.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.50 m

Armament:
6 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 268.96lbs / 122.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
10 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,853 lbs / 840 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 315.78 ft / 96.25 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 91,270 shp / 68,088 Kw = 33.86 kts
Range 4,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,410 tons

Complement:
496 - 645

Cost:
£3.519 million / $14.077 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 220 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 1,585 tons, 16.0 %
- Belts: 560 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 333 tons, 3.4 %
- Armour Deck: 672 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,499 tons, 25.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,310 tons, 43.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,142 tons, 11.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,824 lbs / 5,817 Kg = 50.2 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.63
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.18

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 152.9 %
Waterplane Area: 23,064 Square feet or 2,143 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 107 lbs/sq ft or 524 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.18
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

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SchnellKreuzer 1943_203, New Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Light Cruiser laid down 1930 (Engine 1943)

Displacement:
8,801 t light; 9,166 t standard; 9,916 t normal; 10,517 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.37 ft / 574.15 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.33 ft (normal load)
182.69 m / 175.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.50 m

Armament:
6 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (3x2 guns), 268.96lbs / 122.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (2x2 guns), 34.83lbs / 15.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (2x2 guns), 34.83lbs / 15.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
12 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,911 lbs / 867 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 315.78 ft / 96.25 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 96,765 shp / 72,187 Kw = 34.36 kts
Range 4,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,351 tons

Complement:
496 - 645

Cost:
£3.556 million / $14.224 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 229 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 1,579 tons, 15.9 %
- Belts: 560 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 327 tons, 3.3 %
- Armour Deck: 672 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,499 tons, 25.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,374 tons, 44.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,115 tons, 11.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,745 lbs / 5,781 Kg = 49.9 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 202.1 %
Waterplane Area: 23,064 Square feet or 2,143 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 531 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

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SchnellKreuzer 1943_149, New Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Light Cruiser laid down 1930 (Engine 1943)

Displacement:
8,822 t light; 9,166 t standard; 9,916 t normal; 10,517 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
599.37 ft / 574.15 ft x 59.06 ft x 21.33 ft (normal load)
182.69 m / 175.00 m x 18.00 m x 6.50 m

Armament:
12 - 5.87" / 149 mm guns (3x4 guns), 100.31lbs / 45.50kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (2x2 guns), 34.83lbs / 15.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 34.83lbs / 15.80kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,634 lbs / 741 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 315.78 ft / 96.25 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Ends: 0.79" / 20 mm 258.33 ft / 78.74 m 9.22 ft / 2.81 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 96,765 shp / 72,187 Kw = 34.36 kts
Range 4,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,351 tons

Complement:
496 - 645

Cost:
£3.479 million / $13.915 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 206 tons, 2.1 %
Armour: 1,568 tons, 15.8 %
- Belts: 560 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 316 tons, 3.2 %
- Armour Deck: 672 tons, 6.8 %
- Conning Tower: 20 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 2,499 tons, 25.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,428 tons, 44.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,094 tons, 11.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,179 lbs / 5,978 Kg = 130.3 x 5.9 " / 149 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.72 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 34.45 ft / 10.50 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (60 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Average freeboard: 22.64 ft / 6.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 202.1 %
Waterplane Area: 23,064 Square feet or 2,143 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 110 lbs/sq ft or 538 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 2.25
- Overall: 1.04
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

As you can see, the '38 refit was quite austere, replacing only the main battery armaments and the secondary armaments, along with refurbishment to the engines and slightly improved efficiencies due to higher boiler operating pressures. The '43 refit was a much more major affair, cutting the entire superstructure down and rebuilding it from scratch, showing the evolution towards the NSWE archetype cruiser. The engines, both the boilers and the diesels, are completely replaced - all the serviceable units had experienced around a decade of hard peacetime service, as one of NSWE's most versatile types, plus a couple of years of wartime operating conditions - the '43 rebuild incorporating turbo-diesels in a NSWE first and yet higher operating pressures on the boilers - one advantage of the turbo-electric system was that without the mass of additional steam lines necessary for cruising turbines and backing turbines (which NSWE ships just didn't have, requiring only the one turbine for the generator) NSWE could implement high-pressure boilers and turbines more easily and more reliably than the Kriegsmarine.

In addition to this, some of the '43 new-build hulls (to replace wartime losses) are produced with the original '30 4 x 149.1 mm turret (actually the very same turrets, for some, pulled from storage) - these types, able to carry the full complement of 12 105mm DP (the 203mm twin '43 refit sacrificed too much stability and hull strength and had to land the aft wing mount 105mm DP) are tasked with acting as the "little brother" to the 203mm '43 hulls, using their more numerous, faster-firing 149.1mm main battery to keep destroyers and other light units at bay and bolstering air cover to the 203mm '43s with their full complement of heavy AA, also acting as flotilla leaders for destroyers, able to provide a base of fire if the NSWE DD's run into something bigger than they are.

Well, if we like this, I'll template it properly tomorrow, and add it to the NSWE thread, also ... is the refit feasible? Also, if you look at this right now, may not see the updates to the '30 and '38 ... yes, updating the source pic is fine, Adam ... would be nice to upload it to dropbox, too ...

Regards,
Adam

Shipbucket

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