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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 9:32 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
THIS is a battlecruiser.

[ img ]

CRNWS Yarostnyy, Crovenian Battlecruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
24,728 t light; 26,038 t standard; 29,612 t normal; 32,471 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.55 ft / 590.55 ft x 90.00 ft (Bulges 100.00 ft) x 26.00 ft (normal load)
180.00 m / 180.00 m x 27.43 m (Bulges 30.48 m) x 7.92 m

Armament:
8 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1910 Model
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
10 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1909 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
10 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1906 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 8,345 lbs / 3,785 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 164.04 ft / 50.00 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
32.81 ft / 10.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.50" / 64 mm 574.15 ft / 175.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 6.00" / 152 mm -
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - 6.00" / 152 mm

- Armour deck: 1.25" / 32 mm, Conning tower: 7.00" / 178 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 60,952 shp / 45,470 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 6,434 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,128 - 1,467

Cost:
£2.123 million / $8.491 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,043 tons, 3.5 %
Armour: 8,368 tons, 28.3 %
- Belts: 2,661 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 4,600 tons, 15.5 %
- Armour Deck: 963 tons, 3.3 %
- Conning Tower: 144 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,721 tons, 9.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,095 tons, 40.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,884 tons, 16.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63,728 lbs / 28,907 Kg = 73.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 18.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 68 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.69
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 34
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Mid (50 %): 36.00 ft / 10.97 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (36.00 ft / 10.97 m before break)
- Stern: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Average freeboard: 34.00 ft / 10.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 59.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 253.2 %
Waterplane Area: 41,654 Square feet or 3,870 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 177 lbs/sq ft or 864 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

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Last edited by ABetterName on April 24th, 2015, 5:28 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 9:49 pm
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Joined: January 21st, 2014, 5:33 pm
Much more like one :D

IMO
- if you have twins (probable for the date) then you only have 6 guns (not very good for ranging with salvo's) not idea I would prefer 8 although 6 was done later occasionally (well only R&R and they are war time rush jobs).
- The engine room is to small (stern most funnel to x turret)
- funnels could be moved forward (and maybe made larger ?)
- a few lighter guns on deck (above casements) would be good (and later as AA) say 10 x 3'.
- 'bulge' line at front but not rear that and it doesn't connect forward with raised bow.
- no crane for the boats (and you would have more of them in 1911)
- no armoured conning tower

Hope you don't dislike my help :P and that of others who did it to me when I joined that have commented above (its the only way to get any good by doing many many takes at it).


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 9:53 pm
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Joined: April 16th, 2015, 7:39 pm
Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
The "bulge" in the hull doesn't have a similar line at the back because the hull of the ship is like one wide hull and one narrower hull inside each other, similar to the IJN Kongo.

And I have no problem with criticism, if I'm not learning anything then what is the point?

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"The first phase of the operation did not go as planned." - Anonymous
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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 10:23 pm
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ABetterName wrote:
The "bulge" in the hull doesn't have a similar line at the back because the hull of the ship is like one wide hull and one narrower hull inside each other, similar to the IJN Kongo.
Yes but I think the black line is too strong (it suggests 90deg angle) and you are missing the diagonal bit to the front deck found on most of the ships with the same feature. (and bulges should cover the main magazines under guns)
Quote:
And I have no problem with criticism, if I'm not learning anything then what is the point?
8-)


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 10:39 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
What do you mean by "Armored conning tower" ?

This vessel has the same type of bridge area as the Solzisvy?

Edit: There are only 6 guns because I thought it better for displacement.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 11:14 pm
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Quote:
What do you mean by "Armored conning tower"
Its the bit in front of or in the bridge with the small slits for windows, on the QE (on page 3) its in front off on your BB its inside (just under the range finder) its a citadel from where the captain commands the ship protected by strong armour. its best in front and separate or the damaged bridge might block it, but that uses more length and that's very tight so its a trade off)

If its a good idea or not really doesn't matter (later (30s) the RN dropped them as nobody used them as you cant see as much from inside and not worth the weight) in 1911 you would have one.
Quote:
There are only 6 guns because I thought it better for displacement
Yes but if your fire control isn't up to it you are building a fast predreadnught so I think you need 8 even if you go for smaller guns... (up to you but the fact that nobody built any with 6 apart from R&R later in wartime suggests its not a good idea)


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 23rd, 2015, 11:20 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
Okay, I have updated the image.

There is now a crane, 4 more lifeboats, the funnels are enlarged by 1 pixel, and tertiary 88mm guns.

The X gun battery has been moved back to allow for a larger engine room, the armor belt reflects this, having been lengthened.

And the sharp black line on the hull bulge is gone.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 24th, 2015, 12:02 am
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Hope you don't mind (made a bit of a mess of your nice drawing) I did a short comparison of what I think a good 1911 BC should look like (its probably to good for 1911 if you don't add stupid features like TTs and AB/XY is too good a layout as well really, I have put TR after the X gun just to make it more tiger/Kongo like but you could go Goeben style)
[ img ]
the PR is bigger due to 13.5' guns rather than 11' of SMS Goeben (but she does have more 10 v 8)

The 'lifeboats' in 1911 are also for general use (even used as light attack craft with torpedoes) for unloading men to shore.(rafts are later wartime fit)

Just to reiterate this is super high tech for a 1911 BC you could go for an older design if you are not a world leading power ? (centre guns not super firing etc)

JSB


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 24th, 2015, 12:23 am
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
I think I will keep the 1911 version as is unless there are some serious issues with it still.

I find it amusing that in your cut and paste you added a second gun director for the fore batteries.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 24th, 2015, 12:38 am
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ABetterName wrote:
............
I find it amusing that in your cut and paste you added a second gun director for the fore batteries.
Well everybody makes mistakes (especially me) :lol: :( just wanted too show a conning tower didn't notice your range finder


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