1st New Order Discussion thread.

I am never sure with the 'never weres' how far a set of drawings should go before they are considered 'personal designs' instead.

I look at the Incomparable set of drawings I did with Ace and the only one that is really a never were by definition is the 1916 line drawing rendition, the other four drawings are plausible as follow ons if the Incomparable project was carried forward. This would also apply to the F class cruisers.

I don't mind removing those drawings that more senior people than me deem not to be never were examples.

Basicly this dilemma of never-where's has always been around. Its usually been the rule, that since we are shipdrawing community, rather than shipdesign community, we have kept that section reserved for drawings of never-where projects and in that sense it had meant shipbucket drawings made from plans or other sort of illustrations of real projects that were never materialised as actuall ships.

Generally there is three category of these type of vessels

1. The best sources are usually building plans, detailed profiles of designed ships that never materialised. They have usually entered in advanced stage of devolpment, ordered and designed fully, but by some reason no one build the ships. Or they construction was stopped and so on... naturally not all ships entered to this state retains such plans for us current generation fanbois, but theorethically such plans should exist. Or atleast rather well educated artistic profiles of those ships based on those actuall plans. Drawing ships from this first category is rather easy and simple and allows lot of actuall accuracy in terms of details, dimensions, and disposition. I myself call the "nearly-wheres" , such as the Sovejtsky Sojuz class Battle ships or Graf Zeppelin class aircraft carrier are good exambles of these.

2. The seccond best sources are usually for ships that have been planned on some decission making level, but not entered into actual production, so there usually has not been detailed construction data made. This is the most common state of all never-where's. Usually general plan view migth exists, or a conceptional artistic impression, and in best cases, competing yards offers in the call of bids. This category migth also include the prototype or early variations of some existing ship trough its design phases. Working with this category is also relatively simple and safe, although in many cases the details migth be lacking, and some of the equipment shown on the tenders migth be "placeholder" or some genric alterations. To make good SB drawings, usually requires bit of imagination therefore and artists have to choose wheter they go for blank look or tries to fill the gaps from their own better knowledge of what sort of stuff belongs here and there.

3. The third category is the remaining. Crude scetches, perhaps sliting view to show general size of the vessel, artistic impressions in perspective view based on god-know-what and so on. At best these are from ships that migth have been planned in some naval programs in higher echelon decission makings, and rather rarely they have actually materialised into detailed desing phase as actual ships to be come. Inteligence estimations from the opposing side and projects from the past future belongs here as well, and I would also add good detailed textual descriptions of some vessels with good indicators what it would have appeared and some sort of dimensions attached here as well. These "paper never-wheres" are the borderline cases, and should allways treated and introduced as such
Working with this category of sources, you start closing to the dilemma of how much own work you can add to them? To make good SB drawing, you cant just go with the crude outlines, otherwise you will have blank boxes and those are not the purpose of this community. Generally I would suggest restrain in working with them, unless you are absolutely sure what you are doing, know enough of ships of your chosen projects era and have generally good understanding of how to reproduce that knowledge in SB style. So basicly, you need the drawing experience, and lot of it to to finish the job. Also, bit of stubbournes and hard skin is not bad when working this field, since you are bound to create controversy what ever you produce, so you need to be able to defend your choises and accept the critisism.

How about FD ships and boats?

CraigH

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In active progress
More Ships with Sails
Early Torpedo Boats in SB and FD Scales
Some railroad stuff
More random stuff that strikes me!

I think the situation regarding FD scale requires some deeper discussions. Its been neclected for quite long, and starting to submit stuff now would just lead into chaos and dissorder. We need to figure out what level of stuff we have allready archived, whats in the linked threads and all sort of things. Also, alot would be needed to determen what exactly suffices for uploading and such. But I think the intiative should come from the FD artists and that part of the community. we should get perhaps a discussion thread about possible future FD scale uploading in there where we could share ideas and then figure out how to implement them.

As for this thread in this forum, the stuff is for SB scale like in previous sessions.

In regards of FD-scale ships I'm trying to save everything. Some problem arises, though, in that some works (particularly by ALVAMA) use non-standard templates, which raises question about their "formal legality" so to speak. Personally I'd be inclined to download them anyway due to their artistic and quality merit, but while I have been sort of accepted to be the person "in charge" of saving/compilation (because I was the only one to volunteer to do it) as such, I'm not the authority on the issue of the final way of archivization of FD stuff.

Quote:

but while I have been sort of accepted to be the person "in charge" of saving/compilation (because I was the only one to volunteer to do it) as such, I'm not the authority on the issue of the final way of archivization of FD stuff.

yea, thats why Its highly nesserical that we have some sort of grand congress to get FD scale up to uploadable condition as far as we can. I don't want to go around and decided by according to my own personal opinion everything that is required for FD scale, since its always been sort of sidekick in my own work schedule, I think the community that drews FD scale deserves the biggest word as well.

I'm already willing to volunteer to (still) compile the FD drawings and to "oversee" the archive-to-be. It's not a problem for me, and also the newest incarnation of archive (including the grand upload from year-and-a-half ago and the compilation I'm doing currently all the time) - specifically the way it's organized - with all it's quirks and peculiarities - is sort of my brainchild so there would be no need to explain all of it to someone else nor a risk that this someone would do it in a different manner (which could lead to the state in wich main archive was when there were several ways of naming files etc.).
What is a problem is that some clear guidelines would have to be created (like with mentioned "legality" of ALVAMA's works on non-standard templates) and clear principles of who does what and when (like: now I'm collecting drawings, but what next? should I be allowed to upload them to the mainsite myself or someone else would do that?). Also, there are already two FD archives on the main site: the "old" one:
http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?di ... 20Vehicles
and the "new" (rather "new-ish" one):
http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?di ... 0Scale%202
which should be subsequently removed (possibly with moving the FD part more to the forefront - along "Real Designs", "Never Were's" etc).

Btw. if the new FD Archive were to be regularly maintained, then I assume that "Master Lists" would be no longer necessary and could be discarded (of course only after the new Archive will be already in smooth operation).
And speaking of them, it's about time I update them with last month's content, but I'll have a busy day today, so I'll try it tomorrow.

well if you are willing to volunteer, that would be great, we can discuss the details in PM level.

As for the concerns, re: Alavama, As fas as I've understood he is not that dedicated to get his work into our archive, more like just happy to post them here, But I can check the things from him. As for the future maintanance of the Folders, if we can get bulk of the current stuff uploaded, I don't see why we couldnt then get an uploading session working as well for that part of the forum. The proplem allways has been that the neclect of the past uploads has caused so huge tidal wave of drawings that simply uploading them with session principle is going to end up only partial success.

How long is the upload session running for?

I've some credit corrections to do and I may need to repost the corrected drawings.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

well basicly this will last forever

But at somepoint, take couple of weeks or a month tops I will upload the then current harvest, announce that and then we wait untill another set is completed and repeat. Idea would be that once people have completed their drawings, and feel that they are ready for uploading, they can then submit them here to wait the uploading. That way people don't need to rush in for short session duration and members that happen to be inactive during that particular time are not left behind from the process.

Shipbucket

1st New Order Discussion thread.

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